Hi, I'm Draco. I play Slayer and like to analyze strategies and mechanics. I like to find out as much information as I can about my character and then use that info to inform my decisions in game. I strive to be one of the best Slayers in NA.
All of my contributions to dustloop have been contained in the ACPR Slayer page, and I plan to make that page one of the bests in dustloop. I have many plans for filling out all of the different sections with easy to read, useful information, so look forward to that.
Slayer's Oki section User:DracoDragon42/sandbox
Slayer's Pressure section I'm working on User:DracoDragon42/sandbox2
Slayer's combo section rework User:DracoDragon42/sandbox3
Slayer Dash Cancel guide User:DracoDragon42/sandbox4
My page of random tech, knowlege, and whatever else. User:DracoDragon42/sandbox5
fun +R essay
User:DracoDragon42/sandbox6
Twitter
Slayer Player Steam ID's for searching on the replay database
Feel free to add any Slayer players to the list if you have edit privlages. If not, you can DM me on discord (DracoDragon42#3640) and I'll put it up here. I just need the link to their profile.
- Tanabata -> 76561199103873773
- DracoDragon42(me) -> 76561198329169321
- Rymaru -> 76561198003486476
- Eel -> 76561197976133068
- Daymendou -> 76561198000143919 (I don't think he plays quick match much though)
Slayer Page To-Do list (roughly in order of importance)
- Finish Combo section rework
- clean up pressure section
- Re-write the simple BDC section to make it make more sense
- Re-write BDC section in a more useful, mechanically correct, and concise way. Make the different BDC options an actual move list, contain it in it's own page, link the BDC page on the overview and in the strategy section. Also on the Dash cancel page have an FDC section.
- Add matchup notes section
- Add notes on how to play against Slayer
- Re-word and re-write overview page to make things more concise
- make accompanying videos for combos and strategies
- transfer all discord pins to dustloop and remove most of the pins on discord
Slayer Styles
Pressure
- BDC everything - abuse minus frames and prevent the opponent from challenging your pressure
- Plus frames plus delay - Use good buttons that are usually plus and mix in delays and other attacks to mix up your opponent
- Counter poke - Use 6P, 2H, 6K, and dandies to go through things and counter poke them
- Resets - Don't use many knockdowns, reset from 5K and 2H hits, Iad and forward dash a lot
- Hard callouts - wait until the right moment and callout an option with 6H, Pile, Undertow, 6P, etc
- Spacing - Stay at far range and poke and walk with 5K and such
- Mixups - Use a lot of 6K, 2K, and FDC bite to keep the opponent guessing
Neutral
- Patient Mappa - wait until the right moment and Mappa/BDC Mappa/FDC mappa to whiff punish or just get in through attacks
- Jump around - Jump around out of range and look for an opening to airdash in, use j.2K and a lot of j.P
- Reactive Counter poke - Wait for the opponent to do something and counter poke/anti air with 6P, 2S, 2H, or dandies
- Dash through - BDC or FDC through the opponents approaches in neutral to put yourself in a good position
- Preemptive Pokes/counterpokes - Use 6H, 6P, 2D, 5P mash, and Dandy (CWH) to put out preemptive hitboxes to stop approaches
- Send it - Use Dandies, Mappa, and Iad to get in, don't wait much, just go, mixup approach with air actions and BDC/FDC
- Safe pokes - Use 5K/2K/5P to throw out safe preemptive pokes
- Dandy Distance - Space out dandy step and use it to fake out/as a movement tool. Strong utilization of Pilebunker and CWH
Strategy notes
So I've been thinking lately about when and why to use BDC vs 6P/2H/6K vs Dandy step and I think I'm starting to figure it out. I'm gonna write my thoughts out here:
BDC
BDC can go through any kind of attack but generally has the least reward. BDC runs into problems with moves with a lot of active frames. The only BDC option that actually carries over it's invul to the hitbox is FB dandy Pile, which shouldn't be used that much (it does cost meter). BDC mappa at best gets you a counter hit but usualy mappa is used as a whiff punish. Undertow scales a ton. IAD can go over the opponent, can whiff, or can be anti aired. Jump or back iad is mainly used for avoidence, it sends back to neutral. BDC dandy is essentially just a combination of Dandy and BDC benefits, but again, both still lose to lots of active frames. This can be circumvented somewhat by delaying your BDC for more backdash invul but at that point the move has most likely already recovered. Bite is actually quite good but it has limited range and can't be delayed at all. This makes me wonder if using FDC in place of BDC sometimes would be strong.
The other benefit of BDC is it has low recovery and is really hard to punish, even on a read. A lot of times during your backdash you can re-asses the situation and do something different. Like instead of going for a delayed dandy bdc, go for a jump forward jpppp. BDC is the most flexible and the most safe out of all of the options.
6P/6K/2H
6P/6K/2H, or as I'll refer to them, "counter pokes", have sort of the opposite strengths and weaknesses of BDC. Firstly, you can only get upper or lower body invul so it doesn't work on everything. They also have startup to them so they can't really be used as reversals or anything (although they are great in pressure and can be used as defensive abare tools). The counter pokes are actually quite good against active frames though. As long as their hitbox doesn't hit you, you should be able to hit them and nullify their hitbox before your move recovers. Like Kliff 2D for example. You can easily counter poke it with 2H despite its incredible active frames. Counter pokes are also more commital. Once you press them, you have to do them and you go through a decent amount of recovery (quite a bit with 2H). This means if you time them poorly you can get whiff punished or counter poked or whatever. One of the big benefits is they have strong, consistent reward, and they also get counter hits more often than BDC. 6P counter hit can lead to enourmous damage and 2H gets a stable knockdown, or a good chunk of damage with meter.
Dandy steps
I'm still not quite sure where the Dandy steps fit into all of this. They have the best rewared on whiff punish, worst being a 80 damage pilebunker, best being CWH for corner carry and knockdown. The problem with Dandy step is that they are very commital and lose to a lot of the same things as BDC. I guess the main benefit of dandy step is the movement and the hitboxes. Pilebunker is a fast, huge disjoint, and crosswise heel shrinks your hurtbox to the size of a tic tac. Dandy steps can also be used as feints/setups to confuse your opponent.
When I was playing some slayer mirrors lately, I realized I could just wait and react for them to do dandy step, press 2D and get a counter hit. The counter to this would be Dandy FRC, but no one uses it except me.
I think Dandy step should be thought of as an enhancement to BDC. S dandy on its own isn't really that good, but with BDC it becomes very strong. P and K dandy become a lot more flexible once you add FDC and BDC into the mix. Even FB dandy gets better if you BDC it. But you don't always want to BDC, it just gives you more options.
graphing stuff and looking at data
Theres like a scale I think. X axis is speed, Y axis is Invul. More invul, less speed. Less speed, more invul. It would be intersting to graph all that out actually, just to see the data. I might try it on desmos.
Tried it out on desmos. Seeing a visual helped a bit. It's a linear relationship, more delay on bdc = more invul and more startup. This should have been obvious. However what was important was the comparison between K and P dandy. It seems from the data that P dandy is always gonna be faster with better invul as long as you delay it more. K dandy can get more invul (both actual invul and being out of range) but it also has more startup. They both seem pretty close though, so low delay K dandy is similar to high delay P dandy. Also the backdash goes invisible which makes whats happening much more ambiguous. BDC P dandy should be used more than K dandy in general unless you need range or more invul.
Seems like BDC P mappa is the best for invul and speed. BDC FB Dandy is super super super good for everything. FB Dandy has much more invul AND can be almost as fast as p mappa. But FB dandy uses meter.
BDC IAD
I think that BDC IAD is really strong when used well, especially in tandem with Slayer's other options mentioned above. Cause if you think about it, the opponent isn't ever really gonna wanna anti-air as a response to minus frames. Theyre gonna try to do something against Slayers other BDC options. Backdash, long active low, projectile, dash up throw, dash up button, jab into long active frame move, etc. Iad kinda wins against all of them. I think Delay BDC IAD is where its at though. Long invul and it also helps make sure that the IAD doesn't land at a weird spot.
So something EEL does that I just realized is that almost every time he does BDC IAD, he jumps BACK. I think the direction you jump is actually super important. Jumping backwards makes it more like an aerial Dandy step and also helps to space you out better. I always jump forwards and end up at shitty spacing. I never really thought about how jump angle effects things.
summary
BDC is used for low active frames but any kind of hitbox. It is the most flexible and hardest for the opponent to react to/understand. It can be inconsistent and usually gives low reward, but all the different options make it tricky
BDC IAD is really strong when used properly and at the right spacing. Approaching in the air after a backdash makes BDC much harder to understand as the opponent. BDC IAD only really loses to the opponent waiting and reacting to anti air or the opponent pressing a long active anti air button (justice 2H), and sometimes a low profile options (sol 2D)
Counter pokes are used against specific moves with any amount of active frames. Counter pokes are the least flexible and easiest for the opponent to understand and whiff punish. Counter pokes give consistent reward and can even give really strong combos
Dandys are used for access to good hitboxes and movement. Dandys can be reacted to but can also be empty and used to feint and confuse the opponent. Dandys have the most reward on whiff punish (better than mappa) but lose to active frames. BDC and FDC strongly enhance all versions of Dandy step. Dandy FRC can be used as a counter measure to reactions.
FB dandy is incredibly strong and is able to be used in almost any way. It mainly loses to throws on startup (although its late exists lmao). Tons of invul, quick access to dandy followups, and forward movement make it super strong, especially if Dash cancelled. It uses meter however, which is an important resource for Slayer's strong combos.
Random stuff
Random bits of tech/combos
- 6P FRC FDC P mappa in the corner, can actually pickup
- 2K 2S Eternal wings 5H Undertow
- 6P c.S TK Chokka 5H Undertow
- 2K 2S 2D RC 5H 2H sj.K etc.
- 2K 2S j.D Chokka etc.
Useful Slayer BPMs to practice
- Bite FRC : 126bpm
- 2K 2H delay gatling : 153bpm
- BBU 6H : 55/110bpm
- 6H FRC : 184bpm
- 5K 5K : 126bpm
BPM link formula:
- 3600/(startup + (active-1) + hitstop + recovery)
2P 5H testing
2P 5H should catch jumps against everyone on hit
| Char | Catches jump |
|---|---|
| A.B.A | Catches all modes |
| Anji | Catches only FD |
| Axl | Catches |
| Baiken | Catches difficult |
| Bridget | Catches |
| Chipp | Catches only FD |
| Dizzy | Catches |
| Eddie | Catches |
| Faust | Catches |
| I-No | Catches difficult |
| Jam | Doesn't catch at all |
| Justice | Catches difficult |
| Johnny | Catches only FD |
| Kliff | Catches |
| Ky | Catches |
| May | Doesn't catch at all |
| Millia | Catches only FD |
| Order-Sol | Catches |
| Potemkin | Catches |
| Robo-Ky | Catches |
| Slayer | Catches |
| Sol | Catches |
| Testament | Catches difficult |
| Venom | Catches difficult |
| Zappa | Catches |
Many characters can avoid the 5H if they FD to shrink their hitbox in the air, but I don't wanna test it right now
BDC and FDC Invul transfer
Slayer's BDC and FDC in plus R have their invul transfer overwritten by other sources of invul. So If you do immediate BDC P dandy (21447P) you will still only have 3 frames of invul on the P dandy step. Forward dash invul transfer is direct, as in however many invul frames you have left is exactly how many invul frames transfer. BDC on the other hand transfers 7 invul frames up until frame 10 where it starts to go down 1 invul transfer frame ever next frame of the backdash. So frame 1-9 has 7 transfer, frame 10 has 6 transfer, frame 11 has 5, frame 12 has 4, and so on until 0. Keep in mind that you start having 0 transfer before the backdash invul is over. Also keep in mind that in most cases, invul transfer doesn't really matter all that much. What matters is using the backdash to make something whiff and then punish with a mappa or whatever, so transfer isn't super important and doing BDCs quickly isn't super important, although the quicker you can be, the more moves you can punish with BDC.
Random paragraphs of info I type out on discord when people ask questions
Pot matchup (8/5/2022)
Pot is a hard matchup, you have to fundamentally play slayer differently in order to succeed against pot and even then it's still difficult. Any normal pressure strings can be pot buster'd so you have to change how you run offence. Use a lot of 6K, 5P, and 2P. 5P hits pot crouching so it's good and it chains into itself and other things. Be prepared to almost completely sacrifice oki, between pot buster and backdash oki can be hard to enforce, j.H safe jump and 6K are still good though.
Ive found that P mappa can be decent to end strings with as it will catch armor from Hammer fall and usually pushes back enough to be out of pot buster range. if you know pot buster is coming iad j.D footloose is a decent way of dealing with it that will also beat hammer fall, but can be buster punishable if the footloose lands too close. BDC is also incredibly helpful in this matchup to both escape pot offence as well as dodge pot buster attempts. Sadly, Pot buster has neither counter hit recovery or startup, and the recovery is suprisingly short so punishing pot buster can be very difficult.
Slayer tends to do well against pot in neutral if you are patient and careful. Farther ranged pokes like 5H and f.S can be counter poked by 6P, you can react to slide head with jump, BDC, or 2H (which will punish). Hammerfall can be beat on reaction by dandy step > Crosswise heel, or by canceling a normal, like 5K, into mappa or Dandy step. Pots jump buttons are also pretty easily anti-aired by 2S, except for j.D. I have also found that feinting jump ins with jump forward jp airdash back j.H is quite effective at longer ranges, as pot doesn't really have anything to outright beat it, and if pot commits to something grounded, like slide head, you can usually airdash in and punish.
Notes on RPS, reads, neutral, and stuff (5/13/2021)
I mean, its just hard to answer I think you kind of just have to think about what you did last, and predict how they will act if you have ever played rock paper scissors with anyone for more than 2 rounds, you should understand this throw 1 you both do something random
throw 2 you try to predict how they will change (or stay the same) based on the last throw. ie, are they going to think i will do the same thing as last time, so I beat what beat my option last time, and stuff like that
throw 3 it starts to get more complicated, now you have an idea of what they think of you, and they have an idea of what you think of them. All of the throws after this are trying to get a feel for what they think of you, and get a feel for how they think. then you also want to try to do things unexpected, and predict when they will be unexpected
we really reference rps a lot in fighting games but its a very raw example of reading your opponent its an odd situation, and thinking too much will put you in logical loops where what if he thinks i think he thinks.... theres also people that try their best to be as random as possible, not trying to understand the opponent, just constantly trying to be unexpected again, a lot of parallels
basically, once you know how your options and their options work (and things become quick and easy to do) then you start to think of things more like rps in the moment what your option does and doing your option are second nature, this gives your brain more processing power to predict and be unpredictable for me, its pretty easy to understand when someone is really good, because the way they play makes it clear that they know how the things they do work and are using most of their energy on reads and reactions. they generally dont ever have to think about how to beat something in the moment of a match, if they do, they figure it out in training mode and add it to being something more natural this all reads back to reading peoples intentions you dont particularly have to read exactly what they will do, more just read if they wanna fight (mash), flight (backdash/jump), or freeze(block) read their intent i guess again, this is all simplified and kinda hard to explain
i wouldnt word it that way personally, more, whiff punishing, preemptive space coverage, and unreactable offence (although more wordy but if those words work for you thats fine)
actually those words arent great either
reactive offence, preemptive offence, and unreactable offence
thats better
against wild sols for example, you want to mostly be in the reactive and preemptive range they usually want you to challenge them in neutral so they can hit you with dumb shit, but if you dont challenge, you block their dumb shit and slowly gain advantage ive found quite a bit of success focusing on anti airs against hos because they love to jump in at you, and their jump is really good (2s can win against it though, although not seamless) generally against wilder players you want to play safe until they throw a line you dont bite on for example: random ass dp to beat you mashing after sol is minus and when it comes to what to focus on, thats a player to player, character to character basis i still dont quite understand what you are asking tbh
I mean, the "am I bad" cycle comes from you ego building from growth, then getting shattered when you get on a losing streak or run into another wall
stop trying to compare yourself to others, compare yourself to yourself
you have grown, gotten better
in comparison to "X" person you may be considered bad, but in comparison to yourself you are always considered better easier said than done though