P4U2R/Chie Satonaka/Strategy: Difference between revisions

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Overview

Note: the above video is for 1.1. Chie's base gameplan hasn't changed too much in the patch, but her combo routing is vastly different.

Chie's basic plan is to just do what you can to work your way in and stay in your opponent's face where your fast buttons and high damage can win the day. Unlike most characters, she doesn't really have a mechanic that she plays behind, or big buttons to bully people with, so you just have to force your way in, or force them to whiff something to let you in and just try and keep them pressured.

Normal vs Shadow

Normal Chie
Pros	Cons
5AAA autocombo acts as a launcher for plenty of corner carry in midscreen combos 5AA is one of Chie's best moves for pressure, confirming, and stabilizing combos Chie is the second best char in the game at forcing Awakening thanks to her quick DP Awakening Chie can afford to Blue Burst and still get massive damage without it OMB stabilizes weird hits and confirms	Time in Awakening can be short or nonexistent based on opponents' combos (the latter case being particularly true against Shadow characters) Making your gameplan be to lose 65% health to become better than S Chie is not a very stable idea

Shadow Chie
Pros	Cons
5AAAAA is a stable combo route in the corner, which allows S Chie to get the meter and burst bonus Shadow Frenzy yields high unburstable damage routes off any hit Permanent access to Agneyastra means better metered damage than reg Chie most of the time, even considering the 10% damage penalty. Also allows for Agneyastra > 2C > 5DD corner oki ender	Still have to learn all of reg Chie's combo routes for when Shadow Frenzy isn't available/necessary Lots of combo routes to learn for different Shadow Frenzy confirms Shadow Frenzy routes are much harder executionally than the usual routes

Neutral

Chie's main tool in neutral is her speed. She doesn't have many oppressive hitboxes to throw out so your best bet is to be tricky enough with your movement that your opponent whiffs a big move, gets too intimidated to try to stuff your approach, or just simply doesn't react. Despite having very high speed and kill potential, Chie for some reason is in the high-average health tier (9,500) which gives her flexibility to make a few mistakes while approaching.

Jumping in with run momentum is a fairly common option here. While it's tempting to airdash, it's valuable to hold your air options to bail out of the approach or react to the opponent's reaction, and by not airdashing it allows you to approach while airblocking. What makes this option scary is that Chie's j.C and j.D stall her air momentum and allow her to dodge or even beat many 2Bs and other antiairs.
That said, airdash approaches are still a valuable part of her toolkit. Instant Airdashes (IADs) are really good for two things: jumping over and whiff punishing attacks, and running into antiairs. Use them sparingly. Airdashing higher in Chie's jump arc or airdashing from a super jump allow Chie to dodge many antiairs and still hit standing opponents with j.C

Chie's grounded approach game is necessary to complement her aerial approach game to not be too predictable. Chie has one of the best run speeds in the game and her 2A and 5C combine well with this to form fairly strong approach tools. 2A has fast startup, low recovery, and low profiles many pokes such as Narukami's 5B or Mitsuru's 5A. 5C is more committal, but it's still moderately fast and has pretty good reach. 2A+B is also worth mentioning here due to its Chest attribute invulnerability, allowing it to beat some low reaching pokes that 2A can't low profile. It's a bit unfortunate that she doesn't really get much off of a Sweep hit but getting in and knockdown is good enough. It's tempting to try to use 5A here, but Chie has T. rex arms so it's very difficult to actually hit the opponent this way without running into a hitbox first.
Evasive Actions (more commonly referred to as Rolls in the EN community and Quick Escapes/QEs in JP) are also valuable for helping Chie get in. Some moves, like Elizabeth's 5C, can be rolled through for a full punish, or at least an advantageous position. That said, due to the kinda long duration, you'll end up being disadvantageous and still being forced to block. Additionally, a lot of options end up being autotimed to beat rolls, like Yukiko's j.B fans.

2C received a lot of buffs in the 2.0 patch and has been upgraded from being purely a combo tool to also having utility in neutral. While 2C has fairly slow startup at 19f, it has a large hitbox that stuffs grounded and aerial approaches, and is very difficult for some characters to meaningfully whiff punish. It's also generally safe on block/dash cancel, and leads to fairly good damage+knockdown on dash cancel hitconfirm.

Chie has a bit of a rough time handling aerial approaches. Her most intuitive option, 2B, has a very weird hitbox due to its sliding forward animation. It still works as an antiair, but requires experience to get familiar with. Other options include rising j.A, j.C, j.D, or airthrow to preempt the jumpin, 5A in certain situations, and surprisingly 2A. 2A actually ends up low profiling a lot of aerial moves causing the opponent to land on the hitbox.
214C is another notable option here. It's awkward to punish for airborne enemies and has a very large hitbox that can surprise most opponents trying to float outside of 2B/5C range. The unfortunate part is that it requires meter to convert off anything except CH in the corner. That said, it's still decent damage on its own and the Fatal Counter might intimidate enemies. Also Shadow Chie gets about 10k off a Shadow Frenzy FC combo midscreen so that's probably a pretty good deterrent. In a similar vein, 214C+D is a very strong option (see Metered Options section).

Metered Options

Chie actually has solid SB specials to force her way through neutral, particularly through 214C+D and 214A+B.
214C+D has a fairly large hitbox, armor frames from frame 9 through to the end of active frames, is +5 on block (+0 on dash cancel), is a Fatal Starter, has 0 P1 meaning it's her best CH starter, and leads to full combo midscreen on counterhit. If Chie's wasn't so efficient at using meter in combos this move would be the number one priority.
214A+B is a lunge that covers 3/4 of the screen, is projectile invulnerable from frame 7 through to the end of active frames, and is +3 on block. Outside of the corner, it doesn't really lead to combos like 214C+D does, but it's an option to get in that must be considered (although not necessarily respected) by most zoners.

Agneyastra is also a very strong neutral-winner, although it's not the winning-est winning move. Many characters have full screen options that can punish Agneyastra activation, and the duration and pushback will occasionally require a second Agneyastra to properly cover your approach. This is just to say it's a neutral-winner, not a game-winner. Your opponents will be very unhappy to have to deal with this move.

Defense

Chie's defensive options are very lamentable. Her strongest unique option is her stubby 5f 5A, and other than that she mostly has to rely on system mechanics. Her DP is a counter with short range, few catch frames, and tons of unique counterplay because caught attacks count as being blocked. The main saving grace is that it has a very short total duration so it can be tricky to punish.

5A, 2A, and 5C are probably Chie's best options to try to wrestle back her turn, depending on how far the opponent is. While her 5A is incredibly short range, it's a pretty good option to hit Personas which can end some pressure strings. 2B is a somewhat inconsistent tool at times due to the weird sliding making it hard to hit opponents directly above her. 2C is an interesting option because it has very far reach and maintains Chie's crouching hurtbox, so it can be used to answer certain scenarios.

Chie does have some cheeky tools that let her try to escape the corner. Airdash j.2D allows Tomoe to intercept anyone coming up to try to catch her escape, and j.236C+D launches Chie pretty far fairly quickly and still retain air options. These are not strong, reliable options, but they are options nonetheless.

214C+D does have armor frames, so it's not the worst option. The armor starts kinda late so you can't mash it out of blockstun, but it does work as an answer to some situations. Since it uses a C+D input, it can also be used as a Throw tech Option Select.

Offense

TODO/WIP
Chie's most stable offensive options come from frame traps and strike/throw pressure. Press 4A a lot.

Basic

5A/2A > 66 5A/2A - 5A and 2A are only slightly minus on block so Chie can just loop microdash 5A/2As and it can be really hard to challenge
5A/2A > Throw - its super important to represent the throw option
5AA > Throw - normal chie only. 5aa is also a good pressure reset point to continue with microdash 5A
5A/2A > 2B/5C - fairly autotimed frametrap option
5A > dl. j.C - baits standing throw tech/some mashes. on CH can continue with j.2B > 5B > ..., and on block people often won't challenge the j.C > j.2B gap letting you reset pressure
... > j.B/j.2B - like all of chie's moves are jump cancelable so she can just jump and j.B/j.2B to reset pressure if the opponent isn't looking for it. can also jump over and airturn midscreen
5A > backdash/block - bait dps, etc. good way to see what opponent does
5B/2B > backdash > 66 2B - 2b preserves dash momentum so this is a kinda funny pressure reset option that can yield hits due to being unexpected. 66 5C is also kind of an option here
5C/2C > dash cancel 5A - dash cancel is -3 so kinda okay to use as a reset point. 5B/2B can also be dash canceled but they're more minus
... > 236A+B - metered pressure reset tool. a bit iffy after sweep because sometimes people get hit by sweep and this doesn't combo well from there
... > hop j.B/j.2B - using hop as a reset tool is a bit less telegraphed than a normal jump cancel at times
... > instant j.2D - j.D never hits crouching so it can be punished by crouch > dp or crouch > 2B, but often times people will stand when they see Chie airborne which means you get a lot of plus frames
5A > (dl) AoA - AoA isn't a reliable mixup tool but it does work sometimes and the throw invul + armor is certainly nice
236A > OMC > j.B - very fast overhead option
... > 236236A - its like OMC but you can't use it for tricky mixup stuff and you get to do more damage for a bit
... > 214C+D - its a bit like 236A+B in that it's plus but it doesn't bring you closer and instead just gives about 5k on ch anywhere
run up DP > DP - dont actually do this i'm gonna delete this once i clean up this section more but if the second dp doesnt catch anything sometimes they'll try to punish too late and trigger the second dp. deals more mental damage than actual in-game damage

Midscreen only

5A/2A/5B/2B > jump back > air turn > air backdash > j.B/j.A - pressure reset and also crossup overhead
5A > 5B > 5C > IAD j.C > (OMB) - this crosses up but can be hard to confirm off. if you time it right the followup OMB can uncrossup again

Corner only

236A~236A/B or 236A > 2A/Throw - technically works anywhere but skull cracker is much scarier in the corner. not really a mixup but more of a knowledge/scaredness check
236B - b rampage is +2 but the middle hits whiff on crouching and can thus get DP punished among other options
... > hop j.B/j.2B > j.236A+B (whiff)~236B - j.B pressure resets can be scary because they open up instant skull cracker
5C > dl. 5B/2B > (2DD) - you can wait a hilariously long time and still leave a super tight gap here for frametrapping
5C > IABD (j.C) > 5C > (2DD) - the 2dd allows for pressure resets, and the c moves can be hard to challenge (and bait rolls)
5C > jump back j.C > j.C > 5C - pretty awkward string to punish and you can just do this forever (with neutral jumps after a point). the gap is between the j.Cs
236A~236A > 214A > 214C/D/C+D > (dash cancel) - day one desperation string of chaining specials hoping to ch if they try to punish
236236C+D > OMC > 5A > 2A+B - 125 meter unblockable. not very good but can close out rounds (s chie can get okay damage off it with full shadow frenzy link)

Combo Selection

TODO
In 1.1, Chie was incredibly efficient at converting meter into damage, and her conversion efficiency actually improved the more meter you put in. Thus, it was a viable strategy to stockpile meter into a single Touch of Death confirm and never use meter for neutral/pressure/mixups. This has changed a fair bit in 2.0 as her meter conversion rate now has diminishing returns, OMB is harder to combo into, and Shadow Frenzy's mechanics have changed.

Safejumps

Quick note about safejumps, as they're an important part of Chie's kit. Most non-damage-focused combos that end in knockdown (such as ending in 2A+B, 214A, AoA~D (FC), j.D) allow for Chie to get a safejump. Safejumps are particularly notable in Persona 4 Arena because everyone has an invincible reversal via Furious Action (commonly referred to as DPs here) and frame 1 invincible backdashes aren't available for a few frames on wakeup.
Safejumping after 214A ender is generally fairly autotimed. Holding forward jump at the end of the combo will automatically get the safejump timing correct so all you need to do is input j.B/j.2B close to landing (or framekilling the jump with instant j.B). For most other knockdown enders, it requires a bit of manual timing. Generally, the timing is just to do a forward jump right when/just before the opponent hits the ground. There are also more creative options, such as doing an IAD when the opponent hits the ground, or even 2A+B > Immediate neutral superjump > airturn > slight delay air backdash > j.B.

Special Reversal Options

Kanji's DP - Beats j.B/j.2B safejumps because coming in contact with him with a non-Persona move shocks you. Safejump with j.C (requires slightly different timing) or choose a different okizeme option.
Kanji's Command Grabs - 214D and 214C+D don't have strike invul on frame 1 but can lead to sad times if you mistime your attack. 214214C, 214214D, and 214214C+D do have full invul.
Yosuke's DP - Counter with a frame 1 counterattack. Needs to be safejumped frame-perfectly, or choose a different okizeme option.
Elizabeth and Margaret's DPs - These are invulnerable throws. Since you won't be in counterhit state when landing from your safejump, you can tech these throws, but there are better options to properly beat these and not just tie. Inputting a backdash or an AoA during the expected hitstop of the safejump will allow you to avoid and punish these.
Elizabeth's Ghastly Wail - Elizabeth has a frame 1 invul command grab super which is her only kinda decent reversal option. It's at best 4 after flash, so you can deal with this roughly the same way you deal with her DP
Elizabeth's Debilitate - This is a counter but the catch isn't active on frame 1, so it'll only catch you if you mistime your attack.
Adachi's DP - This is an overhead, so if you block safejumped reversals by crouchblocking, you'll need to standblock to account for it. It's also really slow, so you can play around that.
Chie's DP - The first hit of the counterattack is a low, so if you block safejumped reversals by standblocking, you'll need to crouchblock to account for it.
Naoto's DP~Safety - Naoto's DP is a counterattack that has a backdash followup. Not amazingly strong, but should be aware of as an option.
Minazuki's 214214C+D - This is just a counter that you can't safejump at all. Hitting him at all causes the counter to immediately trigger and hit you.
Aigis's Orgia Backdash - This is the only invincible backdash allowed on wakeup.
This list probably isn't complete.

Vs Chie

TODO

Neutral

don't get hit

Defense

Fuzzy jump her strike/throw. also don't get hit

Tips and Tricks

Navigation

File:P4U2.5 Chie Satonaka Icon.png Chie Satonaka

Persona 4: Arena Ultimax Remaster

Click [★] for character's full frame data

System Explanations

Mechanics

HUD

System Mechanics

Damage/Combo System

Frame Data & System Data

Application & Advanced Information

Archived Information

@@ Line 90: / Line 90: @@
 ==Offense==
-TODO<br/>
+TODO/WIP<br/>
 Chie's most stable offensive options come from frame traps and strike/throw pressure. Press 4A a lot.
+===Basic===
+* 5A/2A > 66 5A/2A - 5A and 2A are only slightly minus on block so Chie can just loop microdash 5A/2As and it can be really hard to challenge
+* 5A/2A > Throw - its super important to represent the throw option
+* 5AA > Throw - normal chie only. 5aa is also a good pressure reset point to continue with microdash 5A
+* 5A/2A > 2B/5C - fairly autotimed frametrap option
+* 5A > dl. j.C - baits standing throw tech/some mashes. on CH can continue with j.2B > 5B > ..., and on block people often won't challenge the j.C > j.2B gap letting you reset pressure
+* ... > j.B/j.2B - like all of chie's moves are jump cancelable so she can just jump and j.B/j.2B to reset pressure if the opponent isn't looking for it. can also jump over and airturn midscreen
+* 5A > backdash/block - bait dps, etc. good way to see what opponent does
+* 5B/2B > backdash > 66 2B - 2b preserves dash momentum so this is a kinda funny pressure reset option that can yield hits due to being unexpected. 66 5C is also kind of an option here
+* 5C/2C > dash cancel 5A - dash cancel is -3 so kinda okay to use as a reset point. 5B/2B can also be dash canceled but they're more minus
+* ... > 236A+B - metered pressure reset tool. a bit iffy after sweep because sometimes people get hit by sweep and this doesn't combo well from there
+* ... > hop j.B/j.2B - using hop as a reset tool is a bit less telegraphed than a normal jump cancel at times
+* ... > instant j.2D - j.D never hits crouching so it can be punished by crouch > dp or crouch > 2B, but often times people will stand when they see Chie airborne which means you get a lot of plus frames
+* 5A > (dl) AoA - AoA isn't a reliable mixup tool but it does work sometimes and the throw invul + armor is certainly nice
+* 236A > OMC > j.B - very fast overhead option
+* ... > 236236A - its like OMC but you can't use it for tricky mixup stuff and you get to do more damage for a bit
+* ... > 214C+D - its a bit like 236A+B in that it's plus but it doesn't bring you closer and instead just gives about 5k on ch anywhere
+* run up DP > DP - dont actually do this i'm gonna delete this once i clean up this section more but if the second dp doesnt catch anything sometimes they'll try to punish too late and trigger the second dp. deals more mental damage than actual in-game damage
+===Midscreen only===
+* 5A/2A/5B/2B > jump back > air turn > air backdash > j.B/j.A - pressure reset and also crossup overhead
+* 5A > 5B > 5C > IAD j.C > (OMB) - this crosses up but can be hard to confirm off. if you time it right the followup OMB can uncrossup again
+===Corner only===
+* 236A~236A/B or 236A > 2A/Throw - technically works anywhere but skull cracker is much scarier in the corner. not really a mixup but more of a knowledge/scaredness check
+* 236B - b rampage is +2 but the middle hits whiff on crouching and can thus get DP punished among other options
+* ... > hop j.B/j.2B > j.236A+B (whiff)~236B - j.B pressure resets can be scary because they open up instant skull cracker
+* 5C > dl. 5B/2B > (2DD) - you can wait a hilariously long time and still leave a super tight gap here for frametrapping
+* 5C > IABD (j.C) > 5C > (2DD) - the 2dd allows for pressure resets, and the c moves can be hard to challenge (and bait rolls)
+* 5C > jump back j.C > j.C > 5C - pretty awkward string to punish and you can just do this forever (with neutral jumps after a point). the gap is between the j.Cs
+* 236A~236A > 214A > 214C/D/C+D > (dash cancel) - day one desperation string of chaining specials hoping to ch if they try to punish
+* 236236C+D > OMC > 5A > 2A+B - 125 meter unblockable. not very good but can close out rounds (s chie can get okay damage off it with full shadow frenzy [https://twitter.com/Elite_Soba/status/1504901248524296192 link])
 ==Combo Selection==