Help:Manual of Style

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The Manual of Style (MoS or MOS) is the style manual for all Dustloop articles. This primary page is supported by further Writing Character Pages and Writing System Explanations. If any contradiction arises, this page has precedence. Failing to follow this document is considered a violation of the user Policy. In the majority of situations no action will be taken against a user who fails to follow this guide because the Bureaucrat Team recognizes that mistakes happen, and not every user is confident and comfortable with editing wikis. With that made clear, the team does still reserve the right to remove user's edit access if that user makes egregious and intentional violations of this page.

Retaining Existing Styles

Sometimes the MoS provides more than one acceptable style or gives no specific guidance. The Moderation Team has expressed the principle that "Format is flexible and individual users can push innovation". This does not mean anything goes. If you believe an alternative style would be more appropriate for a particular section, please discuss it in the Dustloop Discord.

Edit-warring over style is never acceptable.

General Writing Style

Dustloop aims at being an impartial, community driven source of information and education. In order to achieve that, articles need to be written in a manner conducive to maintaining trust, professionalism, and respect. Dustloop would also like to recognize that a significant audience of the site does not speak English as their first language, and so the administration of the site asks that sentences are kept relatively simple when possible.

As a general rule of thumb:

  • Avoid excessively emotive language when possible. (eg: "insanely oppressive offense and abysmally awful defense")
  • Try to be impartial and objective.
  • Avoid using swears whenever possible.
  • Never use slurs under any circumstances.

To add to that point, Dustloop needs to be written agnostic to the skill of the reader. Do not assume a certain level of reader competence; Write such that even a beginner could understand it. An easy way to achieve this is to stick to the descriptive nature of what the character can do as opposed to what the player can do. Instead of "you can block while in the air", write "X Character can block while in the air".

Casual language and inside jokes are acceptable so long as they are kept in moderation.

English, Please!

Dustloop is an English website. Until the day comes that we have the resources, staff, and volunteers to set up an infrastructure for multiple languages, that will continue to be the case. Therefore, the wiki should remain in English.

Furthermore, the English localization always take priority. If the English and Japanese text for a game on this wiki differ, the official English Localization take priority.

If there's a borrow word that is not normally a part of the English language, such as "okizeme", then it should be used with a tooltip the first time that it appears on the page in order to explain it to the reader. Terms like this which are commonly used on the wiki are included in the {{Keyword}} template. Otherwise, use the {{Tt}} template. For example:

This character has a big emphasis on {{Keyword|okizeme}}. They have a good matchup against {{Tt|George Bush|Some guy from America}}.

This character has a big emphasis on OkizemeFrom Japanese "起き攻め". Attacking an opponent about to wake up after they were knocked down, usually with meaty attacks or mix-ups.. They have a good matchup against George BushSome guy from America.

Why Using Non-English Text In Headers Causes Problems

Links to sections are generated based on the entire contents of the section header. Adding additional text to a section header that you plan to link to will have effects ranging from making the author add extra words when writing their link, or need to find and copy paste illegible hyperlinks that aren't easily remembered.

For example, using Anji's "Shin: Ichishiki" (Officially named 針: 壱式 in Japanese), you get the following link:

Header: ==針: 壱式==
Results in: https://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=GGST/Anji_Mito#.E9.87.9D:_.E5.A3.B1.E5.BC.8F

If you instead use the English translation, the link will look like:

Header: ==Shin: Ichishiki==
Results in: https://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=GGST/Anji_Mito#Shin:_Ichishiki

Using non-English Characters in Section Header

Using non-English characters in a section header results in a generated section link with some wacky codes to represent the non-English characters. These are unreasonable for an author to remember, so they will have to find them and copy-paste them when writing a link in an article. Click the "Tell Me More" button for an in depth explanation and breakdown.

On Strive Anji's page the header Kou / 紅 generates the following link GGST/Anji_Mito#Kou_.2F_.E7.B4.85

Another problem with using non-English characters in your link is that a direct copy-paste of the section header does not generate a valid link to the section.

Although the section header is Kou / 紅, the following mediawiki link, GGST/Anji_Mito/Kou / 紅, is not valid for two reasons.

  1. the link has a / character, which is not valid. It makes the link think you are pointing to a sub page
  2. the non-English characters are non recognized, and instead their code needs to be used instead.

Using Special Characters in Section headers


Special characters sometimes behave similarly to non-English characters and generate wacky links when used in section headers. A famous example of this one is Jack-O'.

If you section was named Jack-O', you could not use that as the link. Instead, you would have to use Jack-O%27

Sneaky Broken Links


When you add stuff to the section header, you make it harder to remember what needs to be in the header to work. Let's give an example.

I want to link to Kliff's move "Limb Sever". My first instinct is to write out the link as game/character#move - GGACR/Kliff Undersn#Limb Sever. This actually doesn't work because somebody has appended the Japanese name to the end of the section header. Yet, the link will still show up as blue giving the author the impression that the link is valid.

When a section link has a correct page, but an incorrect section, the link shows as blue, but simply takes the user to the top of the page as opposed to the section they desired. Because somebody has added to the section header, I would instead have to write the link to this section like so GGACR/Kliff_Undersn#Limb_Severer_.28Shishi_Otoshi.29 to get the functioning link.

Color Coding and highlighting

If you've used the site for some time you will have noticed text with colors such as this: c.S > 6K, using the {{clr}} template. For more information on how to use this on wiki pages, see Template:Clr/doc. This is a technique authors use on the site to make numpad notation more accessible to beginner players by relating the colors of the inputs with the colors used for button prompts in game. However, color coding can pose problems for users with color-deficient vision. Please be conservative and do not add color coding outside of recommended use cases in this list.

Things you are encouraged to color code:

  • Move inputs (eg: c.S, j.236A, etc)
  • Tags (eg: BUFF, REWORKED, etc)
  • Difficulty ratings for combo tables (eg: Easy, Hard)

Acceptable edge cases for color coding:

  • Net Change values for combo tables (eg: -10)

Things you should not color code:

  • Move names (eg: Potemkin Buster, Lullaby Fist)
  • Text you wish to emphasize
Hot Links on standard text will be made blue in order to indicate to the user that the text is, in fact, a clickable link. Link colors do not fall under the guidelines listed above.

Pronouns and Gendered Language

We recommend an approach adopted from the APA Style. These best practices should not be taken as thoroughly vetted by the community nor representing consensus.

Use "They/Their/Them" When:

  • If They/Their/Them are the official pronouns used, or if non-gendered pronouns are used.
  • The gender of the subject is irrelevant to the point being discussed
  • The gender of the subject is unknown
  • There are multiple subjects

Use Official Gender Pronouns When:

  • The source material uses gendered pronouns for text that will be copied to the wiki
  • The text needs the additional specification of gender to be clear
Because there is a significant amount of content which already exists on the wiki and uses gendered pronouns to refer to characters, we do not recommend changing the existing pronoun usage unless it improves the quality of the article.

Jokes and Captions

✔️
GGAC Sol 214214S.png
Win the game...or Dragon Install?
BBTag Blitztank Ansturm.png
When you need thots ran over on command
GGAC Ky 2D.png
Some say it's still active to this day...
DBFZ SS4Gogeta x100BigBangKamehamehaBeamOfDeath.png
"YOU'RE ADOPTED!"
GGXRD Leo 5P.png
Knock knock it's time to block.
DBFZ Krillin ScatteringEnergyWave-2.png
"KRILLIN LIMIT BREAK!"
GGAC Potemkin 236S.png
You think you're safe standing fullscreen like that?
DBFZ Beerus 5M.png
Beerus is a Linkin Park fan confirmed
GGAC Venom airThrow.png
Arguably the most important skill for a Venom player
GGST Ramlethal Valentine 2D.png
"Ramlethal? Do you mind telling me what you're doing in that Snuggie?"
"Sir. Going Blankie Mode."

Dustloop has a long history of having joke captions under the images for moves, and sometimes even in the overviews. Some of these captions are genuinely funny and considered a welcome and fun part of the Dustloop experience.

The current stance of the Bureaucrat Team is that we do not want to do away with joke captions entirely, and would still like to grant them some good will, but joke captions will be treated with greater scrutiny in the future, and less of them will be allowed per-page. There is no hard limit, and will be handled case-by-case. Move captions should be on-topic. Personal discretion applies here, so please operate on the honor system.

Criteria for welcome jokes and captions:

  • Jokes that are relevant to the character as they appear in game
  • Explanations of what the moves do
  • Comedic or lighthearted references to how the move is used
  • Comedic references to the primary source material (the game itself, not anime or manga which it is based on)
  • References to the metagame
  • Anything that attempts to be informative or educational

Examples of unwelcome jokes and captions:

  • Inside Jokes
  • Unrelated References/Quotes from YouTube/Twitter/social media
  • References/Quotes to content unrelated to the source material
  • Memes that you would expect to find on social media—such as TikTok, Vine, Snapchat, etc.
  • Political content or hateful content

This list is not exhaustive, and everything you post is subject to the discretion of your peers and the moderation team.
Arguing over captions is a waste of time and effort.

The purpose of the site is not to be a platform for jokes, but instead to be informative and helpful.

Using Bullet Points

Bullet points are a form of writing which help communicate lists of information quickly while emphasizing that text on the page. It is, however, possible to poorly use bullet points and thus de-value them in writing.
For this reason, it is recommended that writers follow these guidelines for the use of bullet points as set by Miami University.

  • Make sure all items in the list are related to each other
  • Keep bullet points short, preferably no more than three lines long
  • Emphasize the beginning of each bullet point to make the list skim-friendly
  • Begin all items with the same part of speech (active verbs work well) and make sure they are in parallel form
  • Make all bullet points approximately the same length
  • Use periods at the end of each line only if they are complete sentences

Character Overviews

Character Overview Pages are the most commonly read articles on the entirety of Dustloop. As such, these articles will be held to the highest standard.

Many readers do not have a long attention span, so get to the point. Be descriptive, detailed, and accurate, but avoid wasting time with flowery language. Overviews need to cover a lot of information in a relatively compact space so it is recommended that editors avoid making excessive use of adjectives fluff phrases.

The overview for a given character should give a reader a basic understanding of what the character can do, what the character's gameplan is, crucial flaws, and key strengths are. The latter two points can be carried by the pros/cons table in the majority of situations, but it is sometimes appropriate to mention things in greater detail within the overview. A reader should walk away from an overview with a baseline understanding of how a character players at a macro scale.

Lore Blurbs

Lore blurbs are optional fields in the overview for a character designed to communicate some information about the character outside of gameplay. Whenever possible, these blurbs should be taken word-for-word from official sources. An example of this would be Granblue Fantasy Versus. Each character, at the time of writing this article, has an official lore description available on their website. In the event that user wishes to write an unofficial lore summary, the summary should be kept short and simple. Four (4) to Six (6) sentences should be considered a safe upper limit for the length of the lore blurb.

If the quote field is used, it should either use quotes from official sources, such as Arc System Works' websites, or quotes which are directly verifiable within their respective game.

Playstyle Summaries

Playstyle summaries are single sentence summaries of their respective character's overview. These do not need to be incredibly detailed and are meant to be read at a glance. The template will force every playstyle summary to start with an icon of the character and the character's name.

Strengths and Weaknesses Tables

Strengths and Weaknesses tables, also known as the pros/cons section, are potentially very contentious and can be damaging to the site's reputation when handled without care. As such, these sections should be collaborative efforts which are frequently cross referenced and verified. Below is a non-exhaustive list of guidelines to follow when editing this section. The Bureaucrat team reserves the right to make rulings on these sections on a per-case basis.

  • Begin every bullet point with a bolded summary of the bullet point, followed by an un-bolded colon.
  • Try to Keep each bullet point to a maximum of 4 lines of text.
  • Be specific. If a point depends on a specific set of moves or situations, enumerate them.
  • Be fair. It is natural to want to emphasize how weak a character's option may be, or how strong it may be. Keep these lists metered and avoid making absolute statements as to what is best and worst in the game.

This section is one of the most scrutinized by outside eyes, and as such it should contain the absolute bare minimum of jokes.

What Constitutes a pro and a con?

This is constantly up for debate, and sometimes people's opinions will change with time. The goal with these lists should be to inform readers as to the following traits:

  • What does this character excel at?
  • What can I abuse as this character to gain an advantage?
  • What flaws do I have to play around with this character?
  • What about my character can opposing characters exploit to gain an advantage over me?
A note about Execution

High execution should only be a weakness if the character loses something significant from execution mistakes. Think through these examples:

What does the character lose by dropping a hard combo, and how integral is that to playing properly?

Example A) Sol

Sol drops a Sidewinder. The opponent techs out at the top of the screen.
Does he die for it? No.
Does he have to play neutral again? Yes
Is Sol's neutral good? Compared to the majority of the cast, No

So is solid execution a big deal? It's not the worst thing, but it forces him to go back to instances where he's inherently at a disadvantage. It's still important to consider.

Example B) Johnny

Johnny drops a Killer Joker FRC, or an Enkasu, or a Tk Ensenga.

Does he die for it? Possibly
Does he have to play neutral again? You betcha
Is Johnny's neutral good? It can be, but he eats shit for a single whiff/getting low profile'd

Is all of this important to playing the character? It's pretty important, yes. Probably comparable, if not worse than Sol.

Example C) Chipp

Chipp flubs a j.2K FDC/Instant Air Alpha/basic IAD string

Does he die for it? Very much so
Does he have to play neutral again? Can't play neutral if you're dead
Is Chipp's neutral good? Unless you're on point, you're gonna have to jump around and if you get touched, you're dead. His buttons are fantastic but most of them don't lead to a proper knockdown or any solid damage.

Is this vital to playing Chipp? Absolutely. A single drop spells death, meaning you either commit hard to the actual damage and make certain you have it, or you commit to small hits left and right, and you'd better not mess those up either.

Given these examples, Example A is not a con, Example B can be listed as a footnote to the table (by adding the |footnote= argument with an explanation), and Example C is a con and can be listed in the right column of the table.

Move Lists

Move lists leave freedom to the community to act as a guide in addition to a fact source. Every move contains a description area where editors can give advice on how a move can be used, the important drawbacks of a move, and so forth. Specific details on how to style these sections can be found on Writing Character Pages, but in general this section is open to whatever people feel is appropriate.


Bad Moves VS Situational Moves

Red Hail on Venom's page. The move carries many flaws, costs meter, and is hard to use in the first place. Yet, there are niche ways to use it.
A good description for a BAD move.
Punisher Drive on SSB Gogeta's page. The move is described as limited and reactable with low reward, but useful in neutral and in TOD combos.
A good description of a SITUATIONAL move.

Sometimes characters have moves that are questionably helpful. In some cases, the community can come to the conclusion that the move is more risk than it's worth, and advise players to avoid using said move in most circumstances. In others, it's helpful in enough scenarios where the move is simply referred to as "situational." Despite this, it's rather common for writers to list many moves with considerable downsides as simply being situational, which is ill-advised due to its vague narrative, dishonesty, confusion to new players and potentially contradicting competitive expertise.

Ask yourself the following questions if you can't decide what a move should be described as:

  • Does the move only become helpful in few, select situations?
  • Does the move have reactable startup, punishable recovery, avoidable hitboxes, or otherwise high risk characteristics?
  • Does the move give low reward for landing it?
  • Does the move have a cost such as meter, cooldowns, health, or a character-specific resource?
  • Does the move replace other moves? Is it possible to revert the replacement in the middle of the match?
  • Does the move have an easy obvious counter, reducing the attack to a knowledge check?

There are also three simpler questions, but these are prone to more debate so handle these with care or use them as tiebreakers.

  • Will top level players, character discords, or the community at large advise against using the move?
  • Does the character have an objectively better choice for the same situation?
  • Does the move invariably put you in a worse situation regardless of success?

If you find that too many of these can be checked off, you are likely staring at a bad move, not a situational one. It's important to differentiate the two, as you don't want readers to believe that a move is better or worse than it really is, but also don't want readers to believe that a helpful move limited to certain scenarios is bad simply because it's not all-purpose. Likewise, just because a move is reactable or has limited range does not make it bad on its own, unless these flaws are so pronounced it will never realistically be feasible to use the move.

There are rare circumstances where moves are so bad, there are no upsides. Describing these moves as "situational" is wrong.
Please exercise caution when describing certain moves as "bad" in a hyperbolic sense, unless it truly is deserving of such harsh criticism.

Using Move Names or Inputs

Depending on the context, both move names and inputs can be appropriately used, and both come with advantages and disadvantages. Some players know moves by their inputs, other by their names. In order to reduce confusion for readers who are less familiar with a character you can use tooltip data to clarify the basic info for that move—the image, startup, recovery, advantage, and guard requirement.

Rule of Thumb: The first time a move is mentioned in a section—excluding its own—use the MiniMoveCard template to remind them.

Example

<div>
How low profile is Grand Viper? Imagine low profile enough to go under 75% of moves in the game, and then go lower.
*{{Character Label|GGACR|Baiken}}'s {{MMC|chara=Baiken|game=GGACR|input=236D|label=FB Tatami}}
*{{Character Label|GGACR|Venom}}'s {{MMC|chara=Venom|game=GGACR|input=2141236S|label=Dark Angel}}
*{{Character Label|GGACR|Johnny}}'s {{MMC|chara=Johnny|game=GGACR|input=2D|label={{clr|5|2D}}}}
*Burst, which can score a powerful reset in the corner
</div>

How low profile is Grand Viper? Imagine low profile enough to go under 75% of moves in the game, and then go lower.

  • Baiken's FB TatamiGGACR Baiken 236D.pngGuard:
    All
    Startup:
    14
    Recovery:
    Total 47
    Advantage:
    -3
  • Venom's Dark AngelGGAC Venom 214236S.pngGuard:
    All
    Startup:
    7+18
    Recovery:
    Total 35
    Advantage:
    -
  • Johnny's 2DGGAC Johnny 2D.pngGuard:
    Low
    Startup:
    9
    Recovery:
    22
    Advantage:
    -8/+5/+8/+10
  • Burst, which can score a powerful reset in the corner

Tips

The Mini Move Card template is, to some degree, intelligent. It can infer data to allow you to write short-hand code.

  • If the game parameter is not given, it will assume the game from the current directory (GGACR in GGACR/Venom/Combos)
  • If the chara parameter is not given, it will assume you want the character the current directory belongs to (Venom in GGACR/Venom/Combos)
  • The template can be called with either MMC or MiniMoveCard interchangeably

The only part that is always mandatory is the input. The input you provide must match the input for that move on the character's data page.

Creating Players to Watch Sections

The "Players to Watch" table is a resource guide and suggestion template meant to go on a character's Resources tab. The idea behind the table is that it provides new players with examples of veteran player footage.

However, these tables should have a few restraints.

  • The section should be presented as "player to watch" not as "notable players". Players who are put into this table need to have a large amount of publicly available footage to observe, whether on YouTube or on a replay viewing site like keeponrock.in.
  • The section must link to example footage. You only really need to have one major link, but multiple sources can be useful.
  • The section should never link to social media for the players, only their footage. This section is not for endorsement.
  • The notes field should provide some basic explanation of why the player's footage is noteworthy for watching.
  • You should perhaps note if a player is retired or not, as that could impact their footage relative to older versions of the game or modern metas.
Do not vandalize these tables, and be careful with who you link to. Site wide standards of anti-racism, misogyny, transphobia and more apply to these tables.

Examples of Strong Writing

Move Overviews

[4]6S or [4]6H (hold OK)

Version Damage GuardHow this attack can be guarded. Throws have their throw range listed instead.
High: High or air Faultless Defense
Low: Low or air FD
Mid: Any ground block or air FD
StartupHow many frames it takes for the move to become able to strike the opponent. Startup includes the frame on which the move becomes active. ActiveHow many frames for which the move has a hitbox where if the opponent touches it, they will take damage. Occurs after Startup. RecoveryHow many frames that the move must go through after its active frames end to automatically go back to a neutral state. On-BlockAlso known as Frame AdvantageThe difference between the attacker's recovery and the period that the opponent is in blockstun. This value is based on the first active frame. Invuln Level
[4]6S 30 [30] All 13 Until Hit Total 37 +2 - 3
[4]6H 46 [46] All 9 Until Hit Total 48 -13 - 3

Stinger Aim, [4]6X, is Venom's equivalent of a FireballA projectile which usually travels slowly across the screen in a horizontal path above the ground. used by traditional characters like Ky.

Planning around this move and Carcass RaidGGAC Venom 28S.pngGuard:
All
Startup:
16
Recovery:
Total 34
Advantage:
+8
is mandatory for Venom players. Assuming that you already have a chargeIn order to access moves that begin with a held input, the user must hold that input for a certain number of frames. This is known as "charging" the move or "storing a charge". prepared, this special is the fastest way to put an activeTo be "active" means that a move is able to hit the opponent projectile on the screen without an inert ball on screen to launch. Similarly, it is crucial that Venom players learn to FRC this move.

[4]6S > FRC is one of Venom's most powerful pressure re-buys thanks to the natural frame advantage of [4]6S. Similarly, using the FRC when the projectile from Stinger Aim misses the opponent can help you avoid certain death because of the lengthy recovery both versions have. [4]6H > FRC provides a much faster ball, which is especially useful when converting off of awkward hits that Venom otherwise could not pick up from.

Beyond the uses as a conversion tool and pressure re-buy, Stinger Aim is also simply a good fireball for space control. [4]6S fires a projectile at a moderate speed which Venom can follow behind to approach, and [4]6H fires a very fast projectile which can snipe opponents who are attempting to act from far away. Both versions are able to interact with inert balls that are currently on the screen, which opens up further opportunities to pollute the screen.

Charge Time: 45f

Combo Theory Boxes

Beginner.png Basic combos are simple combos with the fewest requirements and conditions possible. They:
  • Work against every, or almost every, character in the game
  • Can be performed from most positions in the play area
  • Require few adjustments, and if any are required they are simple

Gatling Into 6K DBCWorks against any grounded opponent.
Very Easy
Starter > c.S(3) > 6K > 421K~D

This is an easy way to get damage as Venom while setting up his high/low okizeme, and acts as a foundational component for his core combos.

Common starters include 2K, and j.236S. If you are too far for the 3rd hit to connect, then instead choose the route c.S(2) > 2S > 5H

By routing into Dubious Curve—(here,421K~D)—you set up a multi-hit projectile that can be used for the standard K-Ball Okizeme. If you desire a different, but similarly easy okizeme setup, then you can cancel into a different version of Dubious Curve. These include 421P for P-Ball Okizeme, and 421H for H-Ball Okizeme.

c.S(3) > 6K whiffs on Axl if you have lots of dash momentum, but if you do any button before c.S(3), the combo will work just fine.

6K > 421X will cause an OTG on A.B.A if you do the cancel immediately; slightly delay the cancel and this issue goes away.

SweepAny sort of gatling into a knockdown.
Very Easy


Starter > c.S(2) > 2D(2) > 214X

An extremely un-flashy, but nonetheless essential, Venom combo. As superb as c.S(3) is, its range is limited, both by its proximity and its hitbox. Accordingly, being able to route into knockdowns is massive for maintaining Venom's momentum and establishing his pressure.

2D(2) will not connect on Chipp in most situations; cancel 2D(1) into ball set.

Beginner Throw ComboEven works from low air throw!
Very Easy
Throw > c.S(1) > 6K > 421K~D

The basic throw combo is conceptually very similar to the basic ground combo, but has small considerations.

Only one hit of c.S is used because any hit launches the now round-ified opponenet towards the wall and bounces them off it. c.S(1) does this well by combining damage with speed.

This combo works anywhere on the screen, but you need to make some extremely small adjustments when playing around the corner. If you are throwing the opponent into the corner, then skip the c.S entirely. This is because the bounce from c.S can cause the opponent to bounce past your 6K. The same adjustment applies if you are cornered and are throwing the opponent out of it, because the bounce will happen too far away for 6K to hit.

Strategy Page Sections

Players to Watch Tables

This section is not an endorsement of players as a people. This is a tool to help find videos to learn matchups, combos, and general play techniques.
Color Name Region Sample Footage Notes
GGACR Venom normal h.png BlackSNAKE Chicago USA.png Frosty Faustings 2022 vs ElvenShadow Freestyle Extraordinaire—showcases how to play on the fly.
GGACR Venom normal d.png Peppery Splash Canada Canada.png Frosty Faustings 2021 vs RS Exemplifies the importance of air throw in Venom's gameplan.
GGACR Venom ex d.png Fino Japan Japan.png Mikado Casuals vs Ain Retired God Gamer—Shows all of the high-tempo, fancy stuff, even when it's not optimal compared to easier things.
GGACR Venom ex d.png Hursh California USA.png Netplay Casuals vs XPHANTOM Uses a palmod over this color in his own footage, one of the stronger active NA Venoms with lots of match footage.
GGACR Venom normal p.png Noah USA USA.png Venom Combo Music Video Author of the Combo Document, helpful for learning combos
GGACR Venom ex s.png Badoor Saudi Arabia International.png Fighters GCC vs Bandito Mentor in the +R main discord
GGACR Venom ex h.png Tarkus Dustloop Wiki Dustloop Wiki.png Good Vibes Grudge Matches vs Vguy Author of the Overview, sometimes uploads match footage against strong players, has a very simple playstyle.

Matchups

x48px JusticeHighly atypical because of Justice's nukes and fullscreen tools, but navigable with a mix of anti-zoning and careful movement.
Struggle

Round Start

A scary, but important moment in the matchup. Venom loses to most of Justice's options, so moving defensively and blocking are advisable. TK H Michael SwordGGACR Justice j41236X.pngGuard:
All
Startup:
21
Recovery:
25+10 after landing
Advantage:
-
is especially menacing, since it beats literally everything Venom can do when timed right, further emphasizing the importance of playing it safe when you have no resources on deck.

Neutral

Keeping Justice in range of Venom's f.S is essential to keep her from getting too nuke-happy; this is basically your optimal range in the matchup. Going too far opens you up to getting completely shut out by nukes (especially if you get block-juggled by them into her, which is a bad situation), and getting too close makes her counter more threatening, and opens up the risk of being hit by her sweep or pseudo-DP. Using balls can be neutral, but don't over-commit to a losing position; it's hard to zone your way out of trouble in this matchup, so preventing Justice from getting that ball rolling is essential.

Quick Tips

  • Hitting P/S balls between P and K nukes with 5P and 5H is a great way to force her to pre-detonate, or catch a nuke set, and keeping the timing varied is essential
  • Be mindful of Saperia Trance and Michael Blade, as these tools are frequently used to try and break Venom's zoning advantage if he secures it
  • Don't always f.S if you're in range for it, as that makes you fairly easy for Justice to catch with her parry

Overview | Frame data | Matchups | Strategy Return to Top

Overview

In many ways, this matchup is a tempo contest. Justice's NukesGGACR Justice 22X.pngGuard:
All
Startup:
7
Recovery:
Total 51
Advantage:
-13
vastly out-perform Venom's balls in most ways, but lack their flexibility. As such, Venom's goal is to avoid letting Justice use zoning formations that fully wall out balls, either forcing her to come to him or spend valuable time clearing the screen with pre-detonations.

Round Start

Round start is a fairly decisive moment in this matchup, owing to how much momentum Justice can generate off a single knockdown (as can Venom, full disclosure). However, Venom is at a far greater risk of being knocked down than Justice. Generally, caution is advised, with an emphasis being placed on staying on your feet; even if Justice gets a nuke off at round start, it is far easier to play around when she lacks meter and you're still in f.S range. Venom's 6P is quite effective versus many of Justice's round start options, but is still dangerously exposed to Justice's massive sweep - going back to our core risk of being knocked down. Defensive movement like backdashing and jumping back can be effective, but take care to not cede too much space to Justice; maintaining a spacing where your f.S is a threat is huge.

TK H Michael Sword deserves special mention as an absolutely menacing round start tool which, when done immediately, will beat out or avoid everything Venom can do at round start. If it is done slightly late, Venom can 6P it, but this really depends on both a good read and a mistake on the Justice's part. Exercise extreme caution if a Justice displays their willingness and ability to consistently leverage this tool at round start.

Tempo

This matchup is... weird. This is sort of putting boundaries on broad spreads of interactions for the sake of intelligibility, but there are a few core phases this matchup can pass through that are important. Do not expect any of these phases to last forever; Justice is more than likely to score a counter, sweep, FB, or Overdrive eventually. Besides, you need to earn your damage. The phases are, roughly, as follows:

  • Venom secures poking advantage
    • Justice will frequently seek to resolve this by using much more of her counterGGAC Justice 236P.pngGuard:
      -
      Startup:
      5
      Recovery:
      Total 38
      Advantage:
      -
      in neutral, which beats mids (f.S, 2S, 6P) but loses to lows (please be judicious about using Venom's 2D in neutral), projectiles, and throws.
    • Poking with a ball at the same time loses to Justice's counter; you can, however, use projectiles to cover advancing lows.
    • You can play off this by closing space and trying to throw, or by setting up more thorough projectile play.
  • Venom secures zoning advantage
    • Justice will frequently seek to resolve this by using NukeGGACR Justice 22X.pngGuard:
      All
      Startup:
      7
      Recovery:
      Total 51
      Advantage:
      -13
      FRC to get a stronger projectile on screen, or with Saperia TranceGGAC Justice 236P.pngGuard:
      -
      Startup:
      5
      Recovery:
      Total 38
      Advantage:
      -
      , and Michael BladeGGAC Justice 632146H.pngGuard:
      Mid
      Startup:
      9+4
      Recovery:
      46
      Advantage:
      -14
      , to interrupt zoning/setting paterns.
    • Simple formations like P Set > 5P loops can be great for keeping Justice from getting a nuke on screen without spending meter, but are highly vulnerable to Justice's fullscreen options.
    • Depending on the discipline of the opposing Justice, this can be a great way to get them to blow huge amounts of time and meter trying to clear the screen and hit you, or to make them slowly approach.
  • Justice secures defensive zoning (projectiles close to her)
    • This can be a good time to try and leverage enhanced H Stinger Aim or fast balls that will go between the P and K nukes, either to score hits, make Justice block, or defensively pre-detonate the nukes.
    • Closing space and leveraging f.S's poking/trading power can be extremely powerful at this time.
    • Don't over-commit to defensive zoning; if the Justice is competent at pre-detonating, you can end up lagging behind and getting cornered as you back off for safer sets.
  • Justice secures offensive zoning (projectiles close to you)
    • Pick a higher power of choice and pray.
    • Dark Angel has limited use for buying a gap in nuke placement, but is by no means a dedicated way out.
    • Justice may be forced to approach to ward off Negative Penalty or, if it is present, to make up a life deficit. Be prepared to deal with her overheads, and be willing leverage FD to buy space to poke out if she gets closer than her nukes.

Managing Nukes

So, nukes are already on screen. There are a few ways Venom can deal with these, some unduly risky and some quite reasonable.

f.S has two utilities. At the last third or so of its range, where it is fully disjointed, you can readily poke Justice out of movement behind nukes, and out of launching a nuke (just shy of full screen while zoomed in). The less disjointed portion of its range can be used to trigger nukes intentionally, eating a single low-damage hit that won't knock down in exchange for taking the nuke off the screen.

Just disjointed enough for the job. A highly valuable normal in this matchup.

6P can be superb for sniping actual nuke sets, but lacks trading potential due to its disjoint disappearing very shortly after going active, which will lead to Justice remaining standing while you are knocked down.

H Stinger Aim, enhanced to level two, can occasionally make it through nukes, but this feels basically semi-random. Level three balls, from both S and H Stinger will pass through, however. FB Stinger Aim will ricochet off nukes, but when charged can pass through the nukes, meaning it generally takes longer; generally this is disadvantageous.

Dark AngelNo results does not interact with nukes at all, and can be used to force Justice to enter the air or block, but be mindful of Air Saperia TranceGGAC Justice 236D.pngGuard:
All
Startup:
11
Recovery:
14
Advantage:
-
, which can let Justice move around Dark Angel's fixed path.

Dark Angel and Tactical ArchGGAC Venom TacticsArch.pngGuard:
-
Startup:
-
Recovery:
Total 29
Advantage:
-
can both be used to set up super freeze unblockables, either with each other or with normal balls, which is an expensive but- if deployed properly- effective way of attacking Justice through a screen of nukes.

Anti-Airs

Contrary to popular belief, you actually can anti-air Justice, but it is admittedly hard. Meeting her air-to-air with j.P and rising j.D can be strong, and in the case of j.P, will consistently lead to knockdowns or air-to-ground blockstrings if you aren't beaten outright.

5P can force clashes with Justice's j.H if spaced (leading to an advantageous situation for Venom, since his 6P then becomes almost impossible to beat), and 6P must be done late and deep, but will work.

Typically this height is quite awkward for Venom to convert off of, but owing to Justice's size, CH 6P > 214P > 5P > 6H is possible.

Running under her is also essential to avoid getting backed into a corner, which is where this matchup usually ends for Venoms who walk themselves to the wall on accident.

Ball Sequences

Ball Hits

  • 214P/S/D > early 5P/K/H - Line drives that will go between P and K Nukes
  • 214D > late 2K/2S/5K - Low ball below P Nuke
  • 214K > 214P > 5H - Faster set of ball its between P and K Nukes
    • 214P > 214K~D > 5H > 214P > 5H can work as a set of two fast volleys
  • 214H 214D > 2S/66 5K > 2K - Set of low balls

Teleports

  • One-ball sets that place a ball far horizontally and vertically (Namely H and H~D) are hugely important, and to some extent, are key to navigating Justice's nukes and to making zoning more difficult and unappealing [VIDEO EXAMPLE]
  • Two-ball formations that cover a lot of horizontal and vertical space (P > D, and D > P~D) can be used to give yourself both a ball to use and a teleport checkpoint to move around nuke pressure. [VIDEO EXAMPLE]
  • Adding to these formations by jumping during the second set can create situations where your teleports are extremely safe, and Justice's only reasonable counterplay is to try and hard read a teleport