GGACR/Slayer/Matchups: Difference between revisions

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< GGACR‎ | Slayer
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<big>'''Overview'''</big>
<big>'''Overview'''</big>
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The Axl matchup is about patience and picking your spots to get in on him. With his long range normals, and Slayer's low mobility, Axl can do a pretty good job of keeping you out. A good read, however, and you are in. Be sure to mix in throws to your pressure to discourage counter's. Don't get too predictable in your approach or pressure since Axl can make you hurt for it. This is a matchup where having your BDCs on point pays dividends and can make Axl have a difficult time pinning you down. It's a difficult matchup but definitely winnable.
The Axl matchup is about patience and picking your spots to get in on him. With his long range normals, and Slayer's low mobility, Axl can do a pretty good job of keeping you out. A good read, however, and you are in. Be sure to mix in throws to your pressure to discourage counter's. Don't get too predictable in your approach or pressure since Axl can make you hurt for it. This is a matchup where having your BDCs on point pays dividends and can make Axl have a difficult time pinning you down. It's a difficult matchup but definitely winnable.
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<big>'''Round Start'''</big>
<big>'''Round Start'''</big>
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<big>'''Neutral'''</big>
<big>'''Neutral'''</big>
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Axl can 2H/Rensen on reaction to d-step.
Axl can 2H/Rensen on reaction to d-step.
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<br>''' Jump and Super jump'''<br>
<br>''' Jump and Super jump'''<br>
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BDC K mappa hunch can go through 2H and Rensen, it can CH 2S and can get you under j.S. Make sure to add in some Mappa feints once they start using counters to catch mappa and watch out for the autoguard.
BDC K mappa hunch can go through 2H and Rensen, it can CH 2S and can get you under j.S. Make sure to add in some Mappa feints once they start using counters to catch mappa and watch out for the autoguard.
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<big>'''Axl's wake up options'''</big>
<big>'''Axl's wake up options'''</big>
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Axl has an autoguard, High/Mid and Low counter, and FRC'able DP that is throw invuln which can make Oki tricky. Button into dandy can make the autoguard attack whiff, counter's can be thrown (and Axl can explode if they guess wrong). The DP, Benten, has a fast start up and more testing is needed as far as counterplay.
Axl has an autoguard, High/Mid and Low counter, and FRC'able DP that is throw invuln which can make Oki tricky. Button into dandy can make the autoguard attack whiff, counter's can be thrown (and Axl can explode if they guess wrong). The DP, Benten, has a fast start up and more testing is needed as far as counterplay.
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Do to all of the options Axl has on wakeup, stagger pressure resets from 2H, as opposed to going for the KD, are very viable. You can 2H stagger into 6H, IAD j.H/D FLJ, dash up throw/2k/2p, another 2H etc.
Do to all of the options Axl has on wakeup, stagger pressure resets from 2H, as opposed to going for the KD, are very viable. You can 2H stagger into 6H, IAD j.H/D FLJ, dash up throw/2k/2p, another 2H etc.
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Axl has true reversal super in Byakue Renshou that is 14+1 startup. It is pretty easy to safejump with IAD J.H off of a j.D knockdown. The rensen like part you can FB dandy through and get a CH PB into whatever.
Axl has true reversal super in Byakue Renshou that is 14+1 startup. It is pretty easy to safejump with IAD J.H off of a j.D knockdown. The rensen like part you can FB dandy through and get a CH PB into whatever.
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<big>'''Slayer's wake up options'''</big>
<big>'''Slayer's wake up options'''</big>
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Axl usually meaties with 3P, 2H, they can go for meaty 6H and cross up overhead in Raiei Sageki. You can BDC jump out of the meaty attempts and can even get a CH with BDC P mappa. Of course, FB dandy PB is also an option but you have to be on point and cancel into PB ASAP.  
Axl usually meaties with 3P, 2H, they can go for meaty 6H and cross up overhead in Raiei Sageki. You can BDC jump out of the meaty attempts and can even get a CH with BDC P mappa. Of course, FB dandy PB is also an option but you have to be on point and cancel into PB ASAP.  
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<big>'''Overview'''</big>
<big>'''Overview'''</big>
<!--What was in here was simply moved around but not deleted; Melovech-->
<!--What was in here was simply moved around but not deleted; Melovech-->
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Johnny and Slayer both have tools to annoy the other. Johnny Dash up 5K can stuff a lot of Slayer's d-step and mappa attempts. When he does normal > coin, you can IB the normal and S Dandy under the coin in certain situations. You generally want to look to Dandy Step > Pilebunker or BDC mappa his normals to whiff punish given he has so much whiff recovery. If he starts doing dash >  normal you can use 6P or 5K to stop him. BDC mappa can be good as a whiff punish but without counter hit you may struggle to get pressure afterwards.
Johnny and Slayer both have tools to annoy the other. Johnny Dash up 5K can stuff a lot of Slayer's d-step and mappa attempts and BDC can blow up Johnny for a mistimed normal. Both characters can make the other explode and neither has a real advantage in neutral. Neutral can often boil down to a stare down. If you have the life lead, Johnny has to move in at some point to attempt and hit you.
Defer to using 2P and 5K over 2K as Johnny can dash over 2K up close. Make Johnny have to choose between stopping K mappa or S dandy in neutral. You generally want to keep a grounded approach against Johnny.
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<big>'''Round Start'''</big>
<big>'''Round Start'''</big>
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You can mappa or 2D under coin but 5K and f.S can poke you out. A lot of Johnny's like backdash coin, f.S, lvl1 mist finer.  
You can mappa or 2D under coin but 5K and f.S can poke you out. A lot of Johnny's like backdash coin, f.S, lvl1 mist finer which you can mappa as well. Best option for a neutral jumping Johnny is to wait, check for Divine blade, then CWH. FDC S dandy can also be a fun option at round start.
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Often whoever wins the roundstart exchange in this matchup tends to snowball the rest of the round. Choosing a safe option such as 5k, 5p or blocking (!) can be best.
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<big>'''Neutral'''</big>
<big>'''Neutral'''</big>
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WIP.
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You generally want to keep a grounded approach against Johnny since his 5P and 6P are pretty effective anti-airs. Defer to using 2P and 5K over 2K as Johnny can dash over 2K up close and if he is at lvl2 his combo will hurt. Make Johnny have to choose between stopping K mappa or S dandy in neutral. Slayer 5K range is where you want to operate and remember that 2p at 4 frames is faster than anything Johnny has.
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Pay attention to Johnny's Mist Finer (MF) level. Level 2 is where Johnny wants to be at, is generally more threatening and takes one coin to reach. Try and avoid walking into/dandy'ing into/ mappa'ing into coin as best you can -- every wasted coin is a wasted resource for Johnny.
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When he does normal > coin, you can IB the normal and S Dandy under the coin in certain situations. You generally want to look to Dandy Step > Pilebunker or BDC mappa his normals to whiff punish given he has so much whiff recovery. If he starts doing dash >  normal you can use 6P or 5K to stop him -- 6P is especially effective against dash 6K. BDC mappa can be good as a whiff punish but without counter hit you may struggle to get pressure afterwards.
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Watchout for Johnny's that like to Killer Joker FRC into a cross up or j.H. Best way to deal with that is usually air IB into air throw or S/H Dandy'ing out of the way.
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Once you have 25% to 50% tension, any close to medium range whiff from Johnny can be punished by BBU or DoT. At 50% tension, get in the habit of buffering DoT for a potential punish.
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<big>'''Dealing with Johnny's Fuzzy Mash 2H'''</big>
<big>'''Dealing with Johnny's fuzzy mash 2H'''</big>
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A lot of Johnny's like to fuzzy mash/abare 2H. 2H starts up in 5 frames and has pretty good range and can catch Slayer's 6K, 6H, dandy attempts in pressure re-buy situations. This is especially true if your blockstring of choice is c.Sf.S. Button > block can have you punish 2H since it is -16 on block. Button>UT will also punish 2H but UT is 50% initial prorate. You can also 2PxN to where the last 2P hits at the finger tips and 2H will whiff. Kill him for it.
A lot of Johnny's like to fuzzy mash/abare 2H. 2H starts up in 5 frames and has pretty good range and can catch Slayer's 6K, 6H, dandy attempts in pressure re-buy situations. This is especially true if your blockstring of choice is c.Sf.S. Button > block can have you punish 2H since it is -16 on block. Button>UT will also punish 2H but UT is 50% initial prorate. You can also 2PxN to where the last 2P hits at the finger tips and 2H will whiff. Kill him for it.
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<big>'''Johnny's wake up options'''</big>
<big>'''Johnny's Wake-up Options'''</big>
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Johnny doesn't have a lot of great wakeup options outisde of backdash and his reversal super "That's my Name". Capitalize on every knockdown you get.
Johnny doesn't have a lot of great wakeup options outisde of backdash and his reversal super "That's my Name". Capitalize on every knockdown you get. Pilebunker enders are a good option against Johnny to maximize damage when Johnny is under 50% tension for that reason.
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<big>'''Slayer's wake up options'''</big>
<big>'''Slayer's Wake-up Options'''</big>
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BDC sj is still an option but the second hit of Johnny's 3H can still snipe you in the air so remember to do BDC FD jump. Escaping out of 3H may not be possible unless you do BDC 1 frame super jump (FD ASAP to reduce your jump start up by 1 -- if there is no dust like animation you'll know you did it right). Johnny can also us upcoin to try and keep you locked down but that is one less resource for him.  
BDC sj is still an option but the second hit of Johnny's 3H can still snipe you in the air so remember to do BDC FD jump. Escaping out of 3H may not be possible unless you do BDC 1 frame super jump (FD ASAP to reduce your jump start up by 1 -- if there is no dust like animation you'll know you did it right). Johnny can also us upcoin to try and keep you locked down but that is one less resource for him.  
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If Johnny has his Enkasu unblockable loops down and you aren't comfortable bdc jumping out, you will die.
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<!--1. 1F jump is a misnomer yes but idk the right term for it lol 2.I am basing the need for 1f jump based on my own play. I've jumped the first part of 3H while getting caught by 2nd but I've also been able to sj out completely. I'll have to go back and check my replays to confirm; Melovech-->
<!--1. 1F jump is a misnomer yes but idk the right term for it lol 2.I am basing the need for 1f jump based on my own play. I've jumped the first part of 3H while getting caught by 2nd but I've also been able to sj out completely. I'll have to go back and check my replays to confirm; Melovech-->
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<big>'''Johnny Specific Combos'''</big>
<big>'''Johnny Specific Combos'''</big>
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Johnny has an annoying hurtbox and usually needs his own specific routes. In general, your goal is to stay under Johnny otherwise he will drop out. You can achieve this by adding j.Ps j.Ss and doing j.PK instead of just j.K. Combos from common starters will be added here soon.   
Johnny has an annoying hurtbox and usually needs his own specific routes. In general, your goal is to stay under Johnny otherwise he will drop out. You can achieve this by adding j.Ps j.Ss and doing j.PK instead of just j.K. Combos from common starters will be added here soon.   

Revision as of 17:08, 4 December 2022

 Slayer



Matchups

NOTE: Old matchup subforums can be found here: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/forums/forum/46-slayer-matchups/

Things to note when discussing matchups:
-General ratio
-Optimal/inoptimal spacings
-Strong/Weak buttons
-Things to watch out for
-Character specific confirms
-etc etc

 A.B.A -/-
 Anji Mito -/-
 Axl Low 4/6

Overview
The Axl matchup is about patience and picking your spots to get in on him. With his long range normals, and Slayer's low mobility, Axl can do a pretty good job of keeping you out. A good read, however, and you are in. Be sure to mix in throws to your pressure to discourage counter's. Don't get too predictable in your approach or pressure since Axl can make you hurt for it. This is a matchup where having your BDCs on point pays dividends and can make Axl have a difficult time pinning you down. It's a difficult matchup but definitely winnable.

Round Start

BDC nj.p and BDC mappa hunch are good option against Axl's 2H and Rensen roundstarts. Axl can get cheeky with roundstart 6H and the air cross up. As always, block and wait is a viable option. Watchout for roundstart counter against mappa -- remember that only high counter counters mids as well.

Neutral
Neutral against Axl is one of the biggest hurdles to overcome. Patience, patience, patience. Axl can afford to play reactively to you and, as Slayer, you are making more committal moves to get in. You want to be aware of Axl's 2h, 5p and Rensen's range. These are his furthest reaching grounded pokes -- be mindful of them at all times. Remember that 2H can gatling into 2D which can be special cancelled into Rensen.

Dandy step
Very difficult to use in neutral as a means to get in. D-step should very rarely be used outside of pressure situations. On a read, bdc k dandy step can cause 2h to whiff but it's pretty risky to do in general.

  • It's very react-able

Axl can 2H/Rensen on reaction to d-step.

Jump and Super jump

Learn to FDC sj.and FDC jump, double jump with momentum preserved. At tip of Rensen/2H ranges, FDC jump into double j.H with momentum preserved can net you a juicy CH on a 2H read. You want to establish FDC jump forward air dash back to keep Axl guessing since Rensen has a pretty late window to cancel into the AA follow-up and 2S can still catch you at those ranges.

Walk and block

Don't be afraid to walk forward into down-back, walk forward into down-back. Be more mindful once you are in j.S and 6H range.

K Mappa Hunch

BDC K mappa hunch can go through 2H and Rensen, it can CH 2S and can get you under j.S. Make sure to add in some Mappa feints once they start using counters to catch mappa and watch out for the autoguard.

Axl's wake up options

Axl has an autoguard, High/Mid and Low counter, and FRC'able DP that is throw invuln which can make Oki tricky. Button into dandy can make the autoguard attack whiff, counter's can be thrown (and Axl can explode if they guess wrong). The DP, Benten, has a fast start up and more testing is needed as far as counterplay.

Do to all of the options Axl has on wakeup, stagger pressure resets from 2H, as opposed to going for the KD, are very viable. You can 2H stagger into 6H, IAD j.H/D FLJ, dash up throw/2k/2p, another 2H etc.

Axl has true reversal super in Byakue Renshou that is 14+1 startup. It is pretty easy to safejump with IAD J.H off of a j.D knockdown. The rensen like part you can FB dandy through and get a CH PB into whatever.

Slayer's wake up options

Axl usually meaties with 3P, 2H, they can go for meaty 6H and cross up overhead in Raiei Sageki. You can BDC jump out of the meaty attempts and can even get a CH with BDC P mappa. Of course, FB dandy PB is also an option but you have to be on point and cancel into PB ASAP.

 Baiken -/-
 Bridget 4.5/5.5
 Chipp Zanuff -/-
 Dizzy 4/6
 Eddie -/-
 Faust -/-

Faust has a ton of air options with great pokes that are hard to challenge. Faust doing jump back j.2K is difficult for Slayer to beat along with Faust being able to mix up his timings. You have to respect items and bomb bag a lot, don't try too hard to get in if you would get hit by them. Dandy step can be pretty good but can get caught by j.2K or Fishing line. You can use IB in the air a lot to slowly close in. You can 6P FB chop.

 I-No 4/6
 Jam Kuradoberi -/-
 Justice 4/6

Overview
Justice is one of the more difficult match-ups for Slayer, nukes control a lot of space and Justice has strong normals to challenge approaches as well. This does not mean you have no ways to fight her, but the most important thing is knowing how to deal with her Nukes.

Round Start

Your best bet is to mash Mappa punch and get an early lead. If that doesn't work play the long game and inch closer to justice as best you can.

Handling Nukes
Justice will most likely pay keep away using her massive projectiles. There are many ways to play around them and no 'one way' to deal with them. Just be patient and try not to use the same option too many times in a row.

Dandy step
Dandy step S and H are good ways to get behind justice and put you in the advantage, however this option comes with heavy drawbacks. It's best to use this move sparingly as a mixup.

  • It's very react-able

The Justice has a lot of time to react to the move if she knows your trying to go for it.

  • Slow startup

The moves have a slow startup and if your unfamiliar with the range can put you in an even worse situation.


Dashing

Dashing through the nukes it not a bad idea. Timed well and you can ignore the undetonated nukes. The Justice can detonated the nukes manually however if she catches you dashing too much. the option is also very spacing dependent and mostly works on the ground nukes as opposed to the air or arched nukes.

Air dashing can accomplish a similar thing, but it has to be timed really well or you end up eating an air nuke. Not to mention slayers air dash doesn't go super far. Air dashing should also be used sparingly.

Super jump

Slayer can super-jump over most of the nukes if timed well, avoiding all variants. This does however give justice the ability to meet Slayer with an air to air or even air grab. The key here is to use it like all the other options. sparingly to avoid being punished for it.

Blocking

The best and most simple strategy is simply blocking the nukes. slowly inch forward and block. Ideally you should IB(instant block) the nukes, as long as you try avoiding FD(faultless defense). Faultless pushes you back and loses meter which just gives the Justice more ground to work with and you less meter.

 Johnny 5/5

Overview
Johnny and Slayer both have tools to annoy the other. Johnny Dash up 5K can stuff a lot of Slayer's d-step and mappa attempts and BDC can blow up Johnny for a mistimed normal. Both characters can make the other explode and neither has a real advantage in neutral. Neutral can often boil down to a stare down. If you have the life lead, Johnny has to move in at some point to attempt and hit you.

Round Start

You can mappa or 2D under coin but 5K and f.S can poke you out. A lot of Johnny's like backdash coin, f.S, lvl1 mist finer which you can mappa as well. Best option for a neutral jumping Johnny is to wait, check for Divine blade, then CWH. FDC S dandy can also be a fun option at round start.
Often whoever wins the roundstart exchange in this matchup tends to snowball the rest of the round. Choosing a safe option such as 5k, 5p or blocking (!) can be best.

Neutral

You generally want to keep a grounded approach against Johnny since his 5P and 6P are pretty effective anti-airs. Defer to using 2P and 5K over 2K as Johnny can dash over 2K up close and if he is at lvl2 his combo will hurt. Make Johnny have to choose between stopping K mappa or S dandy in neutral. Slayer 5K range is where you want to operate and remember that 2p at 4 frames is faster than anything Johnny has.

Pay attention to Johnny's Mist Finer (MF) level. Level 2 is where Johnny wants to be at, is generally more threatening and takes one coin to reach. Try and avoid walking into/dandy'ing into/ mappa'ing into coin as best you can -- every wasted coin is a wasted resource for Johnny.

When he does normal > coin, you can IB the normal and S Dandy under the coin in certain situations. You generally want to look to Dandy Step > Pilebunker or BDC mappa his normals to whiff punish given he has so much whiff recovery. If he starts doing dash > normal you can use 6P or 5K to stop him -- 6P is especially effective against dash 6K. BDC mappa can be good as a whiff punish but without counter hit you may struggle to get pressure afterwards.

Watchout for Johnny's that like to Killer Joker FRC into a cross up or j.H. Best way to deal with that is usually air IB into air throw or S/H Dandy'ing out of the way.

Once you have 25% to 50% tension, any close to medium range whiff from Johnny can be punished by BBU or DoT. At 50% tension, get in the habit of buffering DoT for a potential punish.

Dealing with Johnny's Fuzzy Mash 2H

A lot of Johnny's like to fuzzy mash/abare 2H. 2H starts up in 5 frames and has pretty good range and can catch Slayer's 6K, 6H, dandy attempts in pressure re-buy situations. This is especially true if your blockstring of choice is c.Sf.S. Button > block can have you punish 2H since it is -16 on block. Button>UT will also punish 2H but UT is 50% initial prorate. You can also 2PxN to where the last 2P hits at the finger tips and 2H will whiff. Kill him for it.

Johnny's Wake-up Options

Johnny doesn't have a lot of great wakeup options outisde of backdash and his reversal super "That's my Name". Capitalize on every knockdown you get. Pilebunker enders are a good option against Johnny to maximize damage when Johnny is under 50% tension for that reason.

Slayer's Wake-up Options

BDC sj is still an option but the second hit of Johnny's 3H can still snipe you in the air so remember to do BDC FD jump. Escaping out of 3H may not be possible unless you do BDC 1 frame super jump (FD ASAP to reduce your jump start up by 1 -- if there is no dust like animation you'll know you did it right). Johnny can also us upcoin to try and keep you locked down but that is one less resource for him.
If Johnny has his Enkasu unblockable loops down and you aren't comfortable bdc jumping out, you will die.


Johnny Specific Combos

Johnny has an annoying hurtbox and usually needs his own specific routes. In general, your goal is to stay under Johnny otherwise he will drop out. You can achieve this by adding j.Ps j.Ss and doing j.PK instead of just j.K. Combos from common starters will be added here soon.

 Kliff Undersn 4.5/5.5
 Ky Kiske 4.5/5.5
 May -/-
 Millia Rage 5.5/4.5
 Order-Sol 5.5/4.5
 Potemkin 4/6

Overview
Potemkin has high health and good defensive options against Slayer, and he can also compete with Slayer's damage. His tick throw pressure makes it difficult to use Slayer's defensive options.


Potemkin Buster
200x200

Overview
Pot Buster is a constant threat when pressuring Pot, or when Pot pressures you. Pot Buster is fast enough to interrupt Slayer's common strings that he uses for combos, and has enough range to grab Dandy Step sometimes. Where other characters would only get a weak combo off their fastest moves like 2P, Pot Buster deals a lot of damage and can even lead to a combo midscreen vs Slayer.


Details

  • 3f startup command grab with great range and damage
  • Corner allows for a very strong combo, which can easily deal 50% or more health
  • Combined with IB, can punish a lot of common links such as 6K or It's Late into 2K
  • Midscreen Pot Buster > fS works on Slayer, which leads to 2S > Heat Knuckle for better oki


Counterplay

  • Jump ins and jump cancels avoid Pot Buster, but beware of 6P and fS. Sometimes, Pot can IB > Pot Buster to punish you after landing.
  • Try to pay attention to their Pot Buster habits on defense and bait them for whiff punishes.
  • On defense, it is easier to jump than to backdash or BDC.


Hammerfall
200x200

Overview
Hammerfall is generally strong against Slayer since most of Slayer's normals cannot be canceled and only hit once. Slayer also has many moves that move him forward, so Hammerfall can punish them very easily. Pot uses Hammerfall in his pressure to stay in close range for tick throw mixups.


Details

  • Can armor a single hit, armor starts from frame 1
  • Knocks down on ground hit, techable on air hit
  • Has a FRC slightly after the hit, which makes Pot very + on block
  • Hammerfall Break followup lets Pot cancel the move and is generally unpunishable

Counterplay

  • Punishable on block (5H or BBU), but watch out for the FRC and Hammerfall Break.
  • Try to limit your use of 6P, 6H, 2D, and Mappa in neutral.
  • If you want to use Dandy Step, Crosswise will almost always beat Hammerfall.
  • You can spend 50 meter to RC your single hit moves, then block the Hammerfall attack.
 Robo-Ky -/-
 Slayer 5/5
 Sol Badguy 5/5 Both players are looking to get in, you have to watch meter carefully to make sure he doesn't just run away with a massive meter. It is a tough match up but not impossible.
  • air dashing is a good way to engage with sol if you can call out his gunflame.
 Testament 5/5
 Venom -/-
 Zappa -/-

f.S is a very good poke that wins against most things that you want to do. Zappa can also duck under a ton of stuff, and can 2K under everything he can't duck. His DP is only -10, and it can be hard to stop him from doing backdash > backdash > DP summon. Using iad j.H or FB dandy can work pretty well. If you can get zappa to stop moving 6K can be pretty good.

Navigation

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