GGACR/Baiken/Matchups

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Baiken


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Matchups

NOTE: The old matchup subforums can be found here: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/forums/forum/96-baiken-matchups/

Things to note when discussing matchups:
-General ratio
-Optimal/inoptimal spacings
-Strong/Weak buttons
-Things to watch out for
-Character specific confirms
-etc etc

A.B.A 6/4

Obviously, we start this match up in a favorable position. By carefully playing around A.B.A's anti-air, grab, and dash, we can prevent her from going into Moroha early and forcing her to spend some life pack or even better, putting her life total behind ours. This match up is generally favorable to us because of tactical and knockdown advantages, though obviously we can lose really fast to Moroha damage.

  • Zakuro is a big knockdown tool for us, so try to end combos in this or even do a short string into 2D just to secure the knockdown.
  • The CH curse (X) is really useful because you have a Dead Angle that will always convert into a knockdown if you let it. You can also do a long string to drain her gauge some.
  • You can punish Goku Moroha activation with a Baku or Sakura.
  • Try to play safe and watch out for a cross-up jump-ins and grabs.
  • You can punish Danzai (the DP) by either cancelling into Mawarikomi and going behind her, or by GCing the second attack.
  • To get an Instant Kill, you can FRC or even RC Zakuro and then enter IK mode right away when the Moroha gauge is at 1/3 or below.
  • Get some Training Mode combo practice on A.B.A because she has a very atypical hurtbox.
Anji Mito 6/4

This match-up is mostly advantageous to us because Anji can't run his offense on us like on most members of the cast, and Baiken has easy ways to naturally stuff Fuujin, one of his biggest tools. We should be getting out of his engagements freely and punishing him if he tries anything too risky. If we make a mistake, we can pay dearly, as he has easy confirms from 5S or 5HS into a full Fuujin combo -- Burst immediately to avoid this because FB Rin has a Guard Point on it which could negate your Burst and reset the combo.

  • HS Fuujin can be stuffed by a lot of things -- we have pretty active 2D and 5S, both work very well on this, or even 2HS, as well as Tatami. Round start 2D can be a good idea if the Anji is Fuujin-happy.
  • If he does Fuujin, learn to punish every option. Nagiha (the low) is very minus on block. The P option (projectile fans) can be called out by a jK (untechable counter hit!) or jS jD FRC confirm for big damage. Both HS Rin and FB Rin can call out your jumping, but you can stuff them either with lows or just block them standing into a Guard Cancel punish.
  • With Butterfly, watch if the Anji decides to go in. Safe jumps will work best against us as he can go in safely and bait any follow-up. But if you've done some Ourens or Mawarikomis, he might choose to hang back and not really do much, in which case you just get away for free. Not doing GCs can be very good in this match-up.
  • Anji can get away with some things when doing simple blockstrings because of his normals. 2D will dodge Sakura, and then 6K and 6S have Guard Points. If he does the K special, we can GC out of it either with K or S at the end (careful, because his K special is plus on block and also gives him enough meter to FRC it at the end). Beware this when doing air Tatamis as Okizeme. Mix him up more with lows or Youzansen (because he has to choose a Guard Point normal for either lows or mids).
  • Atypical mix up is the scariest for us, so either frequent tick throws, empty jump throws, cross-up stomps on wake up, or doing raw 3P to us (his overhead), or even TK Orb (overhead for 50 meter, or big ground bounce for no meter).
  • Mind your jumping because of On (command grab) and 5D/6P, etc. Anji can do an HS Fuujin as a follow up after On because of our lightweight.
Axl Low 5/5
Baiken 5/5

It's really a matter of seeing who baits guard cancels better and who gets the first hit or falls into a Tatami. We have big damage, so we can make our doppleganger hurt a lot. Avoid unsafe plays like using Ouren too much, and make sure to throw her more than she throws you. Utilize that Youzansen too.

Bridget 6/4
Chipp Zanuff 6/4
Dizzy 5/5

Polarizing match-up beacuse both sides have powerful games they can run on the other player, but Baiken does have some ways to get out of Dizzy's powerful rushdown. Dizzy is heavily momentum-oriented, so if we let her get knockdowns and let out a bunch of tools, we will eat some big damage.

  • FISH - can't stress this enough - this is Dizzy's scariest tool. The Fish being out puts us at a huge disadvantage, because it will: mix us up by filling in gaps in Dizzy pressure; help her win neutral by zoning us; and defend Dizzy by absorbing/negating our next approach or attack. It will eat a Burst, a single GC hit, a jump-in move, Tatami, etc. Baiken doesn't have much in terms of multi-hitting moves.
  • Hard to advise what to do here. Either jump around and try to not get him Dizzy and the Fish, or get behind her somehow, or try to swat the Fish while in the air and land with a safe jump. If you're getting mixed, Mawarikomi can be a great way to get out of a bad situation and reset.
  • Dizzy takes big damage and is relatively easy to juggle because of her hurtbox, so make sure to make a confirm hurt. In the corner, jS jD FRC airdash jHS needs to be delayed in order to hit.
  • Try to 6K her and chain that either into 5HS > Tatami > FRC Kire Tatami (if you can!) or 6K > 623P > 6HS > jD FRC for some corner carry.
Eddie 6/4

Mostly make sure to get a stray hit on the summon, (Tatami can be good for that, especially the ground flap down), in order to not let Eddie gain momentum. We should be able to escape his pressure with GCs if he doesn't bait really hard (RC that Ouren if you have to!).

  • Baku won't be good against pressure with little Eddie because it will eat the hit, but make him hurt if he presses buttons with it.
  • Careful with IADing/Kire Tatami because the drills easily catch us out of Tatami.
  • Beware his command grab as that's a juicy option on Baiken who thinks about Guard Cancelling a lot - jump out! Or just 6K.
Faust 6/4

Faust has huge buttons and dominates most of our approach, especially from the air, with big attacks, floatiness, and items. It's difficult to capitalize on much when summons or meteors are incoming. You have to heavily play around what items are out, but most items for him in +R are very strong. You can still get big damage on him and his hurt box is easy to confirm off, but you need be extremely careful in neutral.

  • Beware the 6HS overhead -- if you don't react to this, he will win this match up easily.
  • The Fishing pole attack can be full-screen punished with a fast Sakura on block.
  • Watch what items he gets -- try to air block the big bomb or just super jump back. Air dashing forward could be playing into his hand, and blocking the bomb is not that bad becaue we can do stuff on block anyway. If Faust is above us, he will most likely follow this up with a paper bag bomb for more guard gauge damage/chip damage.
  • If a little summon is out, it grants Faust a huge neutral advantage (sort of like Dizzy Fish but not as powerful). One good way to get around it is to switch sides so that it goes the other way, or juggle Faust (air combo).
  • Faust has good mix-up on knockdown, so unfortunately you might be opened up if you don't guess right. Try to switch between just blocking low (2K is common for pressure) or FD jumping out if he does other things and leaves a small gap. He has quick overhead options with his FD cancelling and also the proximity unblockable if we get conditioned into blocking or see an item coming.
  • You either need to capitalize on air hit (be ready to convert with jD FRC > air dash if possible or go into K loops) or GC punish a high level ground move. Ouren is actually pretty good in this match up and can get us a needed hit if the Faust isn't ready for it.
I-No 5.5/4.5
Jam Kuradoberi 4/6

Jam is a natural counter to Baiken. With very good stagger pressure, fast moves, high mobility, a parry, and excellent throw range/throw game, it's difficult to counter her and execute GCs. Mostly try to bait her into falling into a CH Tatami.

  • Try to be patient with stagger pressure. It can be very difficult to execute a GC because of the short blockstun from it, and Jam has good throw range.
  • Puffballs can be GC punished or stuffed with Tatami. Tatami is good at shutting down a grounded approach, but it's vulnerable to Jam's very fast airdashing, so don't be too predictable with it. Airdashing back with Tatami can be ok as long as Jam isn't already throwing out some special move that will impale us against the wall and make us regret our life choices.
  • The Parry negates our Tatami oki, so you don't necessarily have to feed her Tatamis on wake up. Come up with lows or go for TK Youzansen, or tick throw her and show her what that's like.
  • Be ready to react to Gekirin (the overhead kick special) because it's a free Zakuro counter for us.
  • Contest her air dash approach with a jP or even air throw.
Justice 4/6

This infamous match-up can give you nightmares if Justice starts running her "single-player" game. Unfortunately, there isn't a whole lot we can do against full-screen bomb spam. FB Tatami can sometimes help here. Best you can do is try to prevent this situation as much as possible.

  • Take advantage of Justice's huge hurtbox. Very easy to get jump loops on her (can do more neutral jK ones to get extra damage in). Easy to reach with jD > FRC > 6HS > another jD if needed. In general, jS reaches her well to help get her to the corner.
  • Play carefully with GCs and try to make sure to block 2D so that she doesn't push us to the other side of the screen.
  • FB Tatami can be a good way to at least reset neutral or gain back some advantage.
Johnny 4.5/5.5

Though Johnny isn't a "very strong" character in +R, he has good tools against Baiken and outranges us, making it more difficult to contest his approach. Bacchus Sigh and corner knockdowns are a strong method of quickly erasing our life bar as well. His 6P and throw are great tools against us, as well as a fast, spammable 2HS.

  • Zakuro isn't great against his Air Killer Joker (he will most often FRC this) or Air Divine Blade -- with that one he might just be to high or FRC it too.
  • Baku is really the best option against his stuff, including low air stuff and Ensenga (the air flame attack).
  • Play patient and try to get him to spend meter or coins. Baiken can run under the coins.
  • Tatami is an effective wall here but he still outranges us.
  • Utilize 5HS > Tatami > 5HS > Tatami in corner combos on him (basically, his hurtbox lets us do an additional ground juggle). 2K 5S jD is a fancy knockdown if you have the execution for it (can extend with FRC airdash as well).
Kliff Undersn 6/4

The "Russian Roulette" of match-ups, this is mostly a 5/5 because it's so volatile, it really explodes either way. We can very well be in control of most of the match by controlling space with jS, jD, ground Tatami, and appropriately punishing his very slow moves. However, Kliff can also kill us basically in two combos or three. You need to know what he does very well, you need to know what you're going into when you play against people who have such disdainful taste.

  • You need to come into this match-up knowing how his buttons work, or you will die fast. He has a couple of charge moves, like 6P anti-air, 6HS to kill you with, and a low, 2HS (it doesn't even look like a low, it's basically a straight thrust). Important -- Kliff will side-switch to auto-correct if you cross him up while he's charging! 6P has a huge stun modifier (as do a lot of his things in general) so he can stun us really, really fast. On that note, he has a corner combo where he can use an FB to stun us right away.
  • Many of his moves are very unsafe or punishable. His jD is a dive that has recovery, so either air blocking it or just doing Zakuro on it is effective. His 214S is a multi-hitting drill move is unsafe as well, you can Sakura the last hit (not during it! You will get hit) or just Baku him for lovely CH damage. His 214K is the "pole-vault" across the screen; it can be contested with an air normal. Finally, his reversal can be thrown. Make sure to get some throws on him.
  • Tatami controls the match up well, so try to get a juicy CH on him -- make sure to have your combos hurt him a lot. Have the Youzansen combo down.
  • His 2D is extremely fast (7 frames), Kliff might use it to contest you after blocking a falling Tatami on oki.
  • Kabari is a good threat because of his slow jump start up, so you can use it to reset your strings. Beware using it fullscreen, however, as he can use his Overdrive on us.
  • If he does Limb Severer (the air move where he dives straight down with a shockwave) either Zakuro the air hit or wait to block the shockwave and then punish with a GC.
  • His trash animations make me sad.
Ky Kiske 5.5/4.5 Like in many other match-ups, Baiken doesn't allow Ky to run his block-oriented pressure. He still has plenty of ways to mix us up, with his very good tick throw game, but he needs to take some risks.
  • Ky can easily anti-air us, so be careful with jump-ins. FB Star and just D create a solid wall, and his 2HS and 6P are a force to reckon with.
  • Using GCs judiciously is key here. Watch how much the Ky player baits you, and be careful with Ouren in particular. Mawarikomi is generally a little safer. Remember, you don't have to do any of them if he is jumping back and baiting, so you just get away with stopping his pressure for free.
  • Beware Stun Dipper FRC into run up throw and react to Greed Sever - Zakuro it right away.
  • 5HS Tatami > 5HS Tatami works in the corner with a slight delay after the first Tatami. His hurt box is generally pretty good for us.
  • Use safe jump HS to play around his DP.
May -/- This matchup is mostly even, it all depends on how well you can call May out on her dolphins or jumps. If your in corner, you have to be very careful.
  • Tatami used on reaction can beat out dolphin from far away. You need to call May out on mid-range dolphins if you want to beat them out with tatami. You cant react to dolphin up close.
  • Your best tool for approaching is j.H or air tatami.
  • j.D and j.S are excellent tools to keep May out if you decide to go for anti-airs. If your feeling bold, you could go for Youshijin and convert into an air combo.
Millia Rage -/-
Order-Sol 5/5
Potemkin 3/7 Infamously difficult match up that's very advantageous for Potemkin, but still doable. Overall, we have a lot of trouble in neutral because most of our options are bad, and Potemkin doesn't even need to guess very much, whereas we do. We don't have good tools to beat out Hammerfall apart from a block punish with Sakura or Baku or preemptively pressing 2HS, but we are still vulerable to him FRCing it.
  • 6K is what we need to use in order to bypass Potemkin Buster, but we still have to be very careful when doing strings due to IB or even SB Pot Buster. Anytime we aren't doing 6K, we risk getting Pot Bustered due to our short range.
  • Potemkin can bait out Ouren with a long poke and then blocking it, use with caution.
  • Beware tick pressure into a short range Hammerfall into Pot Buster. Jumping out is effective as well until he does the air command grab, Heat Knuckle. Or respond with that 6K if you can see it coming.
  • Backdashing or staying in the air avoids Sliding Head. Rather try to jump in with normals than air dash Tatami, because Flick will kill this approach, either working against Tatami or our hurtbox. Landing recovery from air Tatami can also spell disaster.
  • Jump HS is a somewhat safe way to pressure because it will beat out other ground options unless properly anti-aired, and it results in big damage. Utilize this for big damage confirms and 5HS > Tatami juggles in the corner. We can still do big damage combos on Potemkin.
  • 2HS is a useful button as it beats out Hammerfall. If it's blocked instead, Baiken could be in a bad situation if the Potemkin player Instant Blocks or Slashbacks and punishes.
  • Throw and TK Youzansen mix up are still worth doing on him and may be necessary to open him up, so unfortunately we have to take that risk sometimes.
  • You can Zakuro air attacks like jD, but be confident about doing it fast, or otherwise it will be safe jumped if Potemkin isn't high enough while you input it.
Robo-Ky -/-
Slayer 4.5/5.5 Rather disadvantageous match-up due to the facts that Slayer has lots of mix-up and doesn't apply a lot of blockstun pressure to us. His big damage comes out of nowhere, whether it's from lows, overheads, or crossups. Be wary whenever he has meter, because his options multiply like crazy. However, we can punish pretty much all of his special moves so our reward on guessing right is quite good.
  • Don't use 2S in this match up a lot. It's so much less active than 5S, so it will lose to a lot of his approaches. 5S is much more active and fast, too. It's good at keeping Slayer at bay.
  • It's tough to use GCs against many of his moves because of the low blockstun. Try to use them more when he takes a risk or uses a special move, (literally any of his moves from Dandy stance). Sakura punishes a lot of his attacks except the anti-air kicks (Crosswise Heel). Try to use Sakura FRC a lot. His 2D is also a free Sakura punish for us.
  • Slayer's oki is hard to predict, and a lot of it is different to individual Slayers. Remember that if we have a lot of meter, it's not a bad idea to jump out, since some players may hesitate to put us in blockstun due to Baku. Try to see when they'll do a crossup and use Baku on that.
  • Tatami is all right in this match up, but it will lose to his FB Dandy options. It's good if we are relatively far apart on the screen. But beware him jumping or airdashing over the mat if we spam it too often. Kabari isn't a good option because of low reward at a far distance, and it is vulnerable to many of his attacks, dash-ins, and even super.
  • Zakuro is actually not all that reliable in this match-up, but Yoshoujin is good against his jump-ins (623P).
  • Remember that he can get out of Tatami okizeme if he has meter. If he doesn't, he'll have to hold at least a few buttons from us.
  • Might be pretty worth it to use curses on Slayer just to limit his options and keep him down some.
Sol Badguy 5.5/4.5 We mostly have the advantage here because Sol needs to adjust his game plan a lot for us, and it's also harder for him to get us in neutral. We can greatly capitalize on his mistakes, and most of his special moves are pretty easy to see, call out, and punish. However, at the same time, Sol has good mix up and great normals that can be difficult to deal with for Baiken.
  • Tatamis are pretty good at keeping Sol out, but his jump-ins are very good, so he can easily jump over, or worse, Bandit Bringer us. His jHS is also very strong, it can be difficult to Zakuro it.
  • Conversely, him doing Bandit Revolver/Bringer or Riot Stomp (where he glides back) are all easily punishable with Zakuro. You can Tatami Riot Stomp easily too for a big CH.
  • Similarly, Grand Viper can be dealt with by using Baku or even just Mawarikomi.
  • Be careful of Gun Flame FRC, beacuse it can eat a Tatami and gain ground for Sol, or he can use us blocking Gun Flame to bait out guard cancels.
  • Look out for short strings and 2D.
  • Do what you can to avoid getting Wild Thrown. Try to mix using guard cancels and just jumping out of pressure.
Testament 5.5/4.5 Although Testament is very strong in +R, Baiken is well equipped in dealing with his offense and doesn't have to put up with as much pressure. Still, this is a heavily momentum-based match up where we can get zoned out pretty easily. You need to pay a lot of attention to where he drops traps.
  • If the Testament player is more in a "sit and wait" mode where they lay out a trap and lure you in, Suzuran into a throw works well. Otherwise, choose your approach carefully. Air dash Tatami/Kire Tatami isn't a great option (only do it if you're sure there's no traps or on oki, etc.) because it loses to both net and tree as well as many of his buttons. Try to swat nets with jS or at least FD them, and try to set off trees by dashing over them or with Suzuran.
  • You can get out of his pressure, especially that with EXE Beast, by doing guard cancels. Baiken will go backwards if she blocks an EXE Beast from behind, but that's not always a bad thing if you do the K cancel or HS cancel. Beware when he delays EXE Beast, though -- he will go in with a 2K or a 6P overhead.
  • His ground anti-air, 2S, loses badly to jHS, so use it liberally. His 2S works well on our IAD jS or kire Tatami. The other buttons, like 6HS, can also anti-air with their high archs, so make sure to mix up your approaches.
  • His hurtbox is extremely easy to combo for us. Frequently use 5HS > Tatami, and do this twice in the corner for big damage, follow by 9K 8jHS Tatami, 2D 9K 8 or 9jHS Tatami 6P Zakuro. Basically, you can pretty easily get a neutral jump loop on him, and you can easily hit his big hurtbox with a grounded rep of 5HS Tatami or 6HS Tatami.
Venom -/-
Zappa 4.5/5.5 Though only slightly disadvantegous to Baiken, that's still saying a lot, considering how powerful Zappa is in +R. We do have the tools to win this match up, but a good Zappa player with the right RNG can be extremely difficult.
  • We can block punish his Summon, which works like a DP. Zappas often run forward and do it, or zone with the spit attack when summon-less.
  • Ghosts are rather the least "powerful" summon, but they still give him some annoying zoning and mix-up through an overhead and a cross up jD. Be mindful of getting haunted, which throws annoying objects onto the screen. Avoid the projectiles and try to find an opening; remember that having the threat of a guard cancel is often enough and it doesn't need to be always used.
  • When he has Dog, throw is actually a pretty effective method. Zappa will often wait with the Dog and attack us while blocking (!), because Zappa can freely control the dog while we're in blockstun. The Dog is also invulnerable while not doing anything, so sitting and poking at times can work to catch it as it starts to attack, but more often than not, it will let Zappa move in on us. While sandwiched, we can escape with Mawarikomi or Ouren; the Dog will also generally take the hit first from a guard cancel like Baku or Sakura. We handle Dog better than most of the cast!
  • Sword is rather the most dangerous summon, especially in the hands of a good player. Zappa gets a disjointed attack pattern than can be highs or lows, and this can also travel further and further from him. They'll either try to mix us up on oki, or put the sword in midscreen while staying on the other edge of the stage. We can try to approach, just don't always default to one way, because he has a good anti-air with the DP, for example. His fast backdash will also let him get away from us and reset this. It's tough but do your best to play carefully and try to block the sword, minding that he can jump cancel and continue with overheads in the air.
  • He is small, but his hurtbox is pretty good for us to combo and loop.

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