How to Test for Universal Combos/Setups in DBFZ
Alternative titles:
How to Construct a Consistent Combo That Won't Randomly Drop When I Need It The Most
Why Shouldn't I Teach New Players 1 Frame Links (in DBFZ)
Step 1: Test it on EVERY character, including DLC
Do not do the combo on GT Goku and call it a day.
Exercise your due diligence and perform the combo on the entire cast. Contrary to popular belief, almost every character in DBFZ has their own unique hurtboxes with different quirks. You can never be sure if a combo is universal until you actually do it on everybody.
Sounds pretty tiring, so below is a few infamous characters that tend to drop out of combos. Checking these ones first will save you time vs. going through the cast only to find out 30 minutes later that it doesn't work on Broly.
- Krillin: Shortest hurtbox in relation to collision box. GT Goku: Thinnest hurtbox
- Broly: The one outlier with bigger collision box, along with having the widest hurtbox. Majin Buu: Highest hurtbox
- One of these: Bottom side recedes above collision box
- One of these: Bottom side extends way below collision box
Step 2: ...and on both sides
Finished checking all characters yet? Oh right I forgot you also have to test the it on Player 2 side. No need to exit Training Mode, simply swap sides with the dummy is enough.
While rare, there are combos that work on one side, but drop on the other. Maybe your combo is next.
Step 3: Make it consistent
In my opinion, a "true" universal DBFZ combo requires the following:
- Works on every character with the same inputs and the same timing
- If there are links and/or delays, they should be at minimum a 2-frame window, and maybe accompanied by some sort of visual cue
- Optional: Works at different spacings
Same inputs
I've seen a fair share of "universal" combos that require small changes for them to work on different characters.
I don't mind character specific combos. Nothing wrong with with delay here only against character A and cut a button there for character B. They're just not universal.
Same timing
There are a lot of combos that require small delay on character A, but big delays on character B. Or something in that vein.
Unless the delay windows overlap (for 2+ frames) across all of the cast, calling these universal is misleading Imo. These delays often have to be "felt" and no amount of visual cues can help you through all 40+ characters.
2 frames or more
Thanks to the 3 frames of buffer, a typical link in DBFZ actually has a window of 4 frames. These can be hit basically 100% of the time with practice (see: Base Vegeta loops).
Trouble usually comes from manual delays. 5H rejumps are overall very generous with the SD delay, and only a few require a 2-frame window. Even then, they can be executed very consistently using the Smash cinematic as visual cue (see: Gogeta Blue midscreen j.2H rejump, window for the SD is 2 frame).
However I don't believe combos with manual 1-frame input window (just frame/frame perfect) can be done consistently unless you grind them 24/7. And in a game with huge freedom in combos, these are extremely high risk for not very high return.
Long story short: Hard combo bad. If you can't do it consistently, don't teach it to new players. They can learn a million easier combos.
How can I tell if it's a frame perfect combo?
If you're an avid combo monster and finding yourself dropping certain combos way too often, it's probably because it's frame perfect.
Other than that, there are a few ways to put it to the test:
- Look at Training Mode's Start-Up and Frame Advantage values. For example, if a move has 10F of startup and has to be delayed for exactly 5F, you should expect the combo to work when the Start-Up display shows "15", and fail when it's 14 or 16.
- Use programmable virtual controllers such as Eddienput and script the combo out.
- Record yourself doing the combo over and over and watch it back frame by frame to see where it drops.
Examples of known frame perfect combos
If you wanna prove me wrong about these being inconsistent and unfit for competitive environments, please join the Dustloop discord server and ping me with footage of you hitting any of these 10 times in a row:
Android 21 (Lab Coat) 5M > 2M > SD[2] > delay j.M(1) ▷ 5M (hold 2 to fast fall)
Android 21 (Lab Coat) Smash 5H > delay SD[2] > delay j.M(1) ▷ 5M (both the SD and j.M have to be frame perfect)
Broly (DBS) Midscreen Smash 214L/M, dash 5L (doesn't work on small characters)
Goku (SSGSS) Corner Mid-combo Ground DR > delay 214L
Nappa 5M > 2M > 5S > Smash 236{M}, delay 5M (release M on the first frame that 236[M] would cause a ground bounce)
Tien Smash 5H > delay SD > j.236S ▷ jump j.L (doesn't work on Broly)