GGST/Sin Kiske/Counterstrategy

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Fighting Sin

Sin’s goal is to control space with his slow, but far reaching normals and specials. He's looking to whiff punish you or stuff your approach and then convert those hits into his special moves and follow-ups to carry you into the corner. From there, he can use his c.SGGST Sin Kiske cS.pngGuardAllStartup7Recovery10Advantage+1, 2SGGST Sin Kiske 2S.pngGuardAllStartup12Recovery13Advantage-5, or 6KGGST Sin Kiske 6K.pngGuardLowStartup21Recovery10Advantage+3 in conjunction with his specials/follow-ups for very strong okizeme that leads into scary frame trap and mix-up focused pressure. Sin can only do his special move follow-ups at the cost of his Stamina meter. Once he is empty on his Stamina, his ability to frame trap and mix are greatly reduced, giving you a prime opportunity to take back the momentum. His main pokes are very negative on block, and depending on the distance, very punishable. In a lot of situations, he’ll need to use his specials and their follow-ups to keep himself safe or continue his turn. This leaves a lot of gaps and opportunities for you to take your turn back so long as you know what to look for.

Unique Attributes/Mechanics


  • Stamina
  • Still GrowingGGST Sin Kiske 63214P.pngGuard-StartupRecoveryTotal 49Advantage-

Stamina is a unique resource that allows Sin to use Follow-ups after any of his special moves (other than Still Growing) on hit or block. The Follow-ups for each special move are unique moves themselves, and have a variety of uses ranging from combo extenders to Guard Crushing pressure extenders. He also has access to a command dash Follow-up in Gazelle StepGGST Sin Kiske GazelleStep.pngGuard-StartupRecoveryTotal 24Advantage-, which is usable after any special move or it's follow-up (other than Still Growing), opening up the way for mix-ups, pressure resets, and far-carrying combo routes. It’s an extremely important tool of Sin’s in order to maintain his pressure and keep you on your toes. On hit, most of Sin's specials and follow-ups send his opponents far away, requiring the use of an extra Stamina bar on Gazelle Step if he wishes to get oki, especially at midscreen. On block however, Gazelle Step is throw punishable on reaction after every special/follow-up except for 236K~KGGST Sin Kiske 236KK.pngGuardAll (Guard Crush)Startup13Recovery20Advantage+8 (the Guard Crush punch). You can also attempt to punish him during Gazelle Step's approach with abare, but if he's expecting you to do this he can frame trap using his follow-ups or catch you with an RC, so don't rely on it. Note that if he does not have at least 1 bar remaining on the Stamina Gauge, Sin is unable to cancel his special moves, weakening his offense or leaving him open to punishment.

Still Growing is a special move where Sin will eat a random food item. This random food item grants Sin a random effect, with a random potency and duration from 2-6 seconds. This move is usually only done after a hard knockdown, or after a combo that sends the opponent away from Sin. The effect of the food varies from irrelevant to okay at best. Besides the food item and color around Sin indicating which buff he got, there are no visual indicators (except for the Health/Tension rewards) to show what strength or length of buff he recieved, limiting the usefulness of this move, as he cannot play around a buff that he does not know. Additionally, due to usually receiving the weakest strength benefits, it is rarely worth using unless completely free of risk. It’s not really something you have to worry about.

Round Start


Sin doesn’t have very strong round start options. The normals he has that can reach on round start are slow, and are likely to get beaten if the opponent challenges. However, remember that Sin’s main goal is to control space, whiff punish and then apply pressure. Therefore it’s not necessarily wise to always press a button round start, as Sin could do a slightly delayed 2SGGST Sin Kiske 2S.pngGuardAllStartup12Recovery13Advantage-5 or a slight walk back into 2S in order to punish round start whiffs. He can also use 6PGGST Sin Kiske 6P.pngGuardAllStartup11Recovery20Advantage-12 to beat most pokes while also catching most round start forward jumps. It also easily converts into Beak DriverGGST Sin Kiske 236H.pngGuardAllStartup16Recovery22Advantage-14 and its Follow-upGGST Sin Kiske 236HH.pngGuardAllStartup13Recovery9Advantage-3, allowing Sin to easily start running his pressure and push you towards the corner.

He might occasionally dash into Hawk BakerGGST Sin Kiske 623S 2.pngGuardAllStartup9Recovery36Advantage-26 or Gold Burst to deter people who constantly like to mash round start. However, this is very risky, and not something Sin should be doing constantly. Hawk Baker is a two-hitting invincible reversal DP. It is -26 on block, so while you could punish it like a traditional DP, it’s not recommended to do so when Sin has Stamina, because he can frame trap it with its Follow-upGGST Sin Kiske 623SS.pngGuardAllStartup12Recovery33Advantage-19. There is a 16 frame gap between the first and second hits. When trying to punish Hawk Baker, you should always aim to punish that gap in-between the hits as opposed to after it recovers, so that you don’t have to worry about the threat of the follow-up.

In summary, Sin’s main goal at round start is to get out safely since his round start is not good compared to most of the cast. He’ll likely rotate his options between just walking back, doing a delayed 2S, or an IAD backwards in order to create space.

Neutral


Sin's primary goal in neutral is to try and control space, get a stray hit/whiff punish, and then convert into his close-up pressure. His midrange buttons are slower than average and sluggish to recover, so your best bet is to stay calm, try and outpoke him, and don't use moves with committal recovery. Elk HuntGGST Sin Kiske 236K 2.pngGuardLowStartup21Recovery15Advantage-8 is Sin’s best neutral tool for quickly getting in. It's a decently fast forward-moving attack that hits low and can low profile a lot of midrange pokes. Elk Hunt by itself is -8 on block, but its Follow-UpGGST Sin Kiske 236KK.pngGuardAll (Guard Crush)Startup13Recovery20Advantage+8 is +8 on block and Guard Crushes. Sin can cancel this into Gazelle StepGGST Sin Kiske GazelleStep.pngGuard-StartupRecoveryTotal 24Advantage- at the total cost of two Stamina bars to approach while maintaining large frame advantage, letting him start his pressure game. Expect Sin to fish for this move quite a lot in neutral, as a hit with Elk Hunt lets him start running his RPS pressure, especially when he’s at full Stamina. This is the primary way Sin sets up his offense.

Otherwise, Sin will mainly be standing a solid distance away from you, watching what you do, and throwing out buttons to deter your approach. He wants to get you to block his specials, because with that, he can initiate very potent RPS pressure from a far distance. Try and play neutral outside of the range of Elk Hunt and Beak DriverGGST Sin Kiske 236H.pngGuardAllStartup16Recovery22Advantage-14 and punish him if he whiffs or approaches recklessly. Elk Hunt has 24 frames of start up and thus is quite consistent to react to. From up close, it is possible to throw Sin out of Elk Hunt but at longer distances you'll have to check it with 2K or another fast, low-hitting (as in low to the ground) button. You should be on the look out for this move and avoid it or throw him out of it whenever you can.

Beak Driver is decently fast at 15 frames of startup, but has 22 frames of recovery, so take that opportunity to advance. You can whiff punish it with advancing special moves like Sol's Night Raid Vortex or Ky's Stun Dipper. Beak Driver is only disjointed at it's tip and greatly extends his hurt box, making it fairly easy to whiff punish or 6P. Try to make him whiff it. Avoid blocking it, as if you do, Sin can use either its follow-up or Gazelle Step in order to get in on you and start running his offense. He can delay either of these options, or he could just do nothing and bait you into throwing out something unsafe. Sin can really make you explode if he guesses right.

Sin’s specials by themselves are generally punishable. He needs to do the Follow-Ups to make himself safe depending on the distance between you and him. He should never be throwing out specials if he has no Stamina, and if he does, make sure to punish him for it. If he’s out of Stamina in neutral, he’ll likely start to back off, make some distance, and play passively. He might IAD back > j.HGGST Sin Kiske jH.pngGuardHighStartup11Recovery26Advantage+3 (IAD) or use 2S to control space and buy himself time for the Stamina Gauge to replenish. This is your opportunity to close in on him and push him to the corner. Don't get reckless with this though, as his normals are still decently long and can catch you if you approach carelessly.

Offense


The main strength that Sin has on defence is his meterless invincible reversal in Hawk BakerGGST Sin Kiske 623S 2.pngGuardAllStartup9Recovery36Advantage-26. It's a particularly strong DP in that Sin can get great reward on-hit by Kara-cancelling the DP into either of his supers for extra damage and a potential wall break depending on screen position. It also needs to be dealt with in a very particular way on block so as to avoid the guessing game afterwards. If you block the first hit of Hawk Baker, you should then aim to punish the 23-frame gap between the first and second hit. This can be tricky to do if you're not ready for it, but it's your best option as if you block the second hit as well, Sin can put you into a guessing game. Hawk Baker's Follow-upGGST Sin Kiske 623SS.pngGuardAllStartup12Recovery33Advantage-19 is also strike invincible, and thus puts you into a guessing game of whether Sin is going to simply wait and ride out the recovery of Hawk Baker, do the follow-up, or potentially even cancel into Gazelle StepGGST Sin Kiske GazelleStep.pngGuard-StartupRecoveryTotal 24Advantage- for a gimmicky reaction check to try and get out of a CH punish. If you don't trust yourself to punish the gap on reaction, and don't want to play the mini-game after the 2nd hit, your best bet is to make Sin whiff his DP, as cannot cancel into his follow-ups on whiff, giving you a guaranteed punish.

Besides his DP, Sin's defense is rather lackluster. His fastest button is his 5 frame 2PGGST Sin Kiske 2P.pngGuardAllStartup5Recovery9Advantage-2, which is a pretty standard 2P. His backdash is incredibly slow at 28 total frames, making it unusable in some pressure situations where other characters can backdash and get a punish afterwards. It also leaves him very vulnerable if he uses it in neutral for spacing.

Defense


Sin’s close range pressure is very dangerous because it heavily revolves around RPS. Remember, all of Sin’s special move Follow-Ups can be delayed. He can vary his timing with the Follow-Ups to condition you to keep blocking his pressure. He can get very strong conversions from counter hits this way, and fishing for counter hits is primarily what Sin is trying to do. It’s when Sin gets in that you’re going to want to look for an opportunity to Burst and reset back to neutral, just be smart about when you use it so it doesn’t get baited. Otherwise, there are things that you can do to make his pressure harder for him. When blocking, make sure to use Faultless Defense. It’ll push him out far and force him to overextend his pressure, usually at the cost of Stamina. Remember to keep an eye out for either Elk Hunt or Gazelle Step during his pressure and throw him out of those moves.

Sin’s c.SGGST Sin Kiske cS.pngGuardAllStartup7Recovery10Advantage+1 is +1. He has numerous frametrap options from this button, including:

  • His 5 frame 2P, which he can use to check your jump/mash.
  • His 2HGGST Sin Kiske 2H 2.pngGuardLow, AllStartup14Recovery27Advantage-16 and his 5HGGST Sin Kiske 5H 2.pngGuardAllStartup16Recovery18Advantage-2, which he can delay to catch abare and convert into for big damage.
  • 2SGGST Sin Kiske 2S.pngGuardAllStartup12Recovery13Advantage-5, another delayable option to prolong pressure and beat mashing.
  • Hoof StompGGST Sin Kiske 214S 2.pngGuardHighStartup21Recovery22Advantage-11 an overhead that crushes lows and beats throws due to it being airborne.
  • 6KGGST Sin Kiske 6K.pngGuardLowStartup21Recovery10Advantage+3 a low that launches upwards on hit and leads to decent reward on hit and is +3 on block.
  • Dashing in for a throw.
  • Reset the threat of his frametrap options by dashing in and doing c.S over and over.

This is what makes Sin’s close range pressure so strong. It’s built entirely around keeping you guessing what he’ll do and when he’ll do it.

  • Sin’s 5H and 2H are both two-hitting normals. Sin can cancel both the first and second hit into any of his special moves, but if he doesn't, the timing of the second hit can't be delayed and will always be the same. This leaves these buttons very vulnerable to instant blocking.
  • Since his 2H and 6K are lows, when combined with Hoof Stomp, he can threaten a decent high/low mix. Hoof Stomp and 6K both have 21 frames of startup, so they can be interrupted with a quick button such as 5P/2P or an invincible reversal if you react in time. Hoof Stomp is -11 on block, but it also has a Follow-UpGGST Sin Kiske 214SS.pngGuardAllStartup13Recovery22Advantage-8 that he can use to frame trap. It’s -8 but it has enormous pushback so it's difficult to punish unless it’s Instant Blocked. 6K is +3 on block, putting him at advantage, but is susceptible to Faultless Defense.
  • If you're struggling to hit Sin out of Hoof Stomp's startup, any time Sin can no longer do a low hitting normal (such as after a 6P, 6K, 5H 2H, 6H or 2D), you have no reason not to just stand block to protect against a possible Hoof Stomp and react to Elk Hunt with throw.
  • His 6K has a slow, 21 frames start up, but it’s +3 on block, so try to interrupt it during its start up. If you can't interrupt this in time, this normal has high pushback. As long as you're blocking with Faultless Defense, it'll be nearly impossible for him to capitalize on the plus frames. He'll have to special cancel sometimes to enforce them.
  • Aside from Hawk Baker (and Beak Driver in some situations), all of Sin’s special moves lose to invincible reversals on start up. However, he can choose to not cancel into his specials to stay safe and bait out reversals in most situations if he is expecting it.
  • As long as you're using Faultless Defense, you can increase the distance Sin would have to travel in order to get you with a tick throw or additional c.S.

Countering Gazelle Step

While Gazelle Step may seem like a major threat on defense, it is generally a mental stack check, as it can be beaten by fuzzy throw and/or fuzzy jump. All of Sin's specials have quite distinct animations, meaning that when he cancels into Gazelle, you can react to the very first frame, excluding particle effects partially obscuring it. Canceling into Gazelle is negative after every special (excluding Elk Hunt's follow-upGGST Sin Kiske 236KK.pngGuardAll (Guard Crush)Startup13Recovery20Advantage+8) and is 24 frames long, so you can simply throw Sin out of Gazelle on reaction (or throw tech on a late reaction). All of Sin's special's follow-ups are completely unreactable, so if Sin does a special follow-up and you react with throw, you'll press during hitstop When a character is hit, both characters are stopped in place to visualize the hit and give feeling of impact. Hitstop describes this phenomenon. Typically hitstop affects both players equally, but this is not always true. For example an attack may cause the opponent to be in hitstop longer than the player, or in cases of most projectiles, the attacker does not experience hitstop at all. or blockstun When a character successfully blocks an attack while standing or crouching, the defender is forced into a stun animation for a set period of time where they are incapable of acting. This period of time is called blockstun., causing the move to not come out at all. Therefore, if you press throw on reaction to Sin moving after a special, you'll punish Gazelle and block any special followup. This effectively allows you to counter the main mixup Sin gains from you blocking specials with little risk, forcing him to rely on much more risky stagger pressure in those situations.

Reversal Gaps / OS

Since has a few moves that are particularly weak to DP, specifically both of 2H's hits and 5H's first hit. 2H's second hit is a mid, and thus you do no have to be holding down back to block it. If you buffer a dp in between the two hits of 2H or 5H, any cancels excluding Beak DriverGGST Sin Kiske 236H.pngGuardAllStartup16Recovery22Advantage-14 will have a gap and therefore will be hit by dp. Sin will not be able to call out this dp without PRC'ing the move. Thus, he will be forced to allow the move to finish before doing his mix. Even worse is that 2H's second hit is -17 on block, meaning that if you buffer a dp, Sin is forced to do Beak DriverGGST Sin Kiske 236H.pngGuardAllStartup16Recovery22Advantage-14 to keep it gapless and stay safe. Using this trick, you can force Sin to route into beak driver off of 2H and prevent all further mix, and prevent timing mixups / early cancels on 5H mix.

Understanding How Sin Uses His Resources on Offense

Make sure you're watching the Stamina Gauge. Since Sin has no way to restore the Stamina Gauge outside of just waiting, you can come to an understanding of what options Sin will be likely to go for and when. Sin can use Tension as a substitute for Stamina in situations where he lacks it. For example, Sin will be a lot less likely to his specials in blockstrings because in order to get anything meaningful on hit or to stay safe on block, he’d have to use Stamina or meter. In fact, it’s generally not worth it for him to use Hoof Stomp in pressure unless he has the Tension to RC since the ONLY thing he can convert into off of Hoof Stomp is either the Follow-Up or Gazelle Step, even on Counter Hit.

As just mentioned, Sin’s specials are generally punishable and he needs to do the follow-ups to make himself safe depending on the distance between you and him. If he runs out of Stamina when he’s running his pressure, he'll generally try to end his pressure in a safe way, then make distance and keep himself safe using the methods mentioned before in the neutral section so that he can recover stamina before going back in.

Sin can confirm most strings into his invincible Overdrive R.T.LGGST Sin Kiske 632146H.pngGuardAllStartup11+5Recovery25+32 After LandingAdvantage-55. It's similar to Ky's Ride the Lightning, but unlike that Overdrive, Sin can change the trajectory of the attack up to two times. It can be a strong whiff punish tool thanks to its corner carry, granting him a wall break from most positions on the screen. Like his special moves, R.T.L also has a Follow-UpGGST Sin Kiske 632146HH.pngGuardAllStartup12Recovery39+15 After LandingAdvantage-43 which is a large explosion. Sin needs more than 50% Tension in order to do the Follow-Up. He doesn’t need full Tension, but the size of the Follow-Up’s hitbox is dependent on how much Tension he has, and doing the follow-up will completely drain the Tension gauge. This additional hit gives him the ability to break the wall from virtually anywhere, at the cost of all of his meter. The additional hits of R.T.L do not have invulnerability like the first hit does, and there is a gap of 11 frames between each subsequent hit, giving you time to c.S punish him between each hit, or just throw him for a simple punish.

In the corner, Sin will generally use his other Overdrive Tyrant BarrelGGST Sin Kiske 236236PP.pngGuardAll (Guard Crush)Startup3Recovery39Advantage-12 to break the wall. It’s similar to Sol’s Tyrant Rave, but unlike that Overdrive, Tyrant Barrel isn’t invincible. Furthermore, Sin performs a powerful secondary strike when P is released. If the attack is timed well to strike the opponent accurately, Sin will Clean Hit for additional damage. It launches into a Rolling Tumble and Hard Knockdown on hit. If Sin takes too long to input the second hit, the opponent will land with a soft knockdown and the wall won’t break. On block Tyrant Barrel is -12 but Sin will be pushed back far enough that it can’t truly be punished, but you can still take your turn.

References/Resources

Definitive Guide to Beating SIN KISKE by YomiFGC

How to PRESSURE as SIN KISKE 【GGST GUIDE】by YomiFGC

Sin 101 | Strategy, Combos, Overview and Advanced Tips | Guilty Gear Strive Starter Guide by Diaphone

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